Need opinion of value for closet find P08

[8milimeter]

A good friend of mine just purchased a home and found this p08 on the top shelf of closet. Need to help him sell this gun.
BYF 41 with mirror bore. See photo's PS: No Magazine :-(

Thanks, 8mm

[Norme]

Hi Richard, That byf 41 looks to be in nice shape except for the damage to the right grip panel. Bearing that in mind and the fact that it's missing it's magazine I would figure it about $1,500.00 including that rather ratty looking 1914 holster. I hope this helps.
Regards, Norm

[Sergio Natali]

Welcome to this Forum of LUGER enthusiasts.
Very lucky find I would say! In the past I changed several houses but never found anything in any closet, actually now that I think about never even found any closet...
Jokes apart, here weapons are registered with the Police, so if you ever find a gun surely can't keep it unless you found it buried in the ground of an old battlefield, and even in that case you're supposed to report it immediately to the Police, what is it like in the States?

From the pictures it looks like a nice gun doesn't look reblued, some minor wear marks, I don't think it was left on that shelf for long, on the contrary it looks very well looked after, neither pitting nor rust marks. And no mag?
Far too good to be true, it's very strange indeed to me.
About the holster I don't know what to say apart that it looks much more neglected than the gun, I'll let the real experts chime in.

[DavidJayUden]

I agree with Norme, $1500 is a good starting point. Of course learn and follow all your local laws regarding such matters.
Great find!
dju

[Desperado]

8mm,

I assume your good friend has first made every effort to find the proper owner of the pistol?

First, I would contact the local police to find out if this pistol has been reported stolen. (The police may take it while making that determination but will return it to him if the rightful owner cannot be found - in Texas at least they will. That's the way "found property" is handled here. They might also run ballistics while they have it.)

Anyone could have been in the house and left the pistol since the previous owner vacated. No, I don't believe that any more than you do, but legally it is a defense. Leaving the pistol when moving is one way of getting rid of a firearm that you bought for a "bargain" and always suspected was stolen or feared had been used in a crime.

When your friend sells it, the buyer registers it if that is required in your state, or even if the buyer has the police check - and it pops up on some registry as stolen, your friend may have a lot of explaining to do. It would be even worse if ballistics were run and this gun matches bullets fired in a crime.

If, after police checks, it comes up clean, I would still contact the previous owner of the house - realtor and county real estate registration both have this information - and ask if the previous owner if they were missing any firearms after the move. (Realtor probably has contact information on them, if not the lawyer handling the deed transfer would - as would some of the neighbors, probably.) Its simply the "right" thing to do. If the friend found a valuable piece of jewelry, he'd do that. The pistol is no different.

If the previous owners can clearly identify the type of pistol (you have not said pistol or long gun, just "firearm") then you know its theirs even if they cannot give you the serial number.

I would make every effort to get it back to them, as I would want them to do if this situation was reversed. You have no idea what the personal value of that pistol is to them. They may not have been able to find Grandpa's bring back luger since the move and fear it was "taken by the movers" or whatever.

If it were my lost property (wedding band, pistol, wallet, etc.), I'd certainly want it back. If it was your friend's, I'll bet he would too.

Talk to your friend and get him to do what he would want done to him, mainly because it is the right thing to do, but also to protect himself. Once proper ownership is established - and he could wind up being the proper owner for "found property" - then its time to figure out the value of the pistol.

Just my 2 cents worth...

Doug

[Sergio Natali]

Originally Posted by Desperado

8mm,

I assume your good friend has first made every effort to find the proper owner of the pistol?

First, I would contact the local police to find out if this pistol has been reported stolen. (The police may take it while making that determination but will return it to him if the rightful owner cannot be found - in Texas at least they will. That's the way "found property" is handled here. They might also run ballistics while they have it.)

Anyone could have been in the house and left the pistol since the previous owner vacated. No, I don't believe that any more than you do, but legally it is a defense. Leaving the pistol when moving is one way of getting rid of a firearm that you bought for a "bargain" and always suspected was stolen or feared had been used in a crime.

When your friend sells it, the buyer registers it if that is required in your state, or even if the buyer has the police check - and it pops up on some registry as stolen, your friend may have a lot of explaining to do. It would be even worse if ballistics were run and this gun matches bullets fired in a crime.

If, after police checks, it comes up clean, I would still contact the previous owner of the house - realtor and county real estate registration both have this information - and ask if the previous owner if they were missing any firearms after the move. (Realtor probably has contact information on them, if not the lawyer handling the deed transfer would - as would some of the neighbors, probably.) Its simply the "right" thing to do. If the friend found a valuable piece of jewelry, he'd do that. The pistol is no different.

If the previous owners can clearly identify the type of pistol (you have not said pistol or long gun, just "firearm") then you know its theirs even if they cannot give you the serial number.

I would make every effort to get it back to them, as I would want them to do if this situation was reversed. You have no idea what the personal value of that pistol is to them. They may not have been able to find Grandpa's bring back luger since the move and fear it was "taken by the movers" or whatever.

If it were my lost property (wedding band, pistol, wallet, etc.), I'd certainly want it back. If it was your friend's, I'll bet he would too.

Talk to your friend and get him to do what he would want done to him, mainly because it is the right thing to do, but also to protect himself. Once proper ownership is established - and he could wind up being the proper owner for "found property" - then its time to figure out the value of the pistol.

Just my 2 cents worth...

Doug

Of course I think that's simply right, and I agree with Doug.

[mrerick]

Respecting what Doug said above, first have your friend double check with his/her realty agent and see if purchase of the house included all contents at the time of sale. That is generally the case, and it would tend to indicate that title for the gun passed to you.

It is the seller's responsibility to clear out personal possessions prior to sale of a property.

i would check with the police department to verify that the gun is not stolen. Note that Luger serial numbers are duplicated on several different pistols based upon when they were made, and what company made them. just because there is a serial number match on a "Luger" doesn't mean it's the same gun. It also has to be a "41" date "byf" Mauser made Luger to match. For example there were DWM made lugers numbered "1600". The suffix letter also has to match.

You don't indicate what state you live in, and there may be registration or confiscation laws in force. For that reason, it might be worth checking with the lawyer that handled the contract and title transfer first. That could put the property on record, and prevent it from being stolen, lost or mis-appropriated as this gets worked out. If the contract lawyer can't handle it they can give a reference.

The holster from WW-I is early, and also has a value. My guess given condition is $200 or so, but it might be worth more because it is quite early (1914).

The gun itself would start at $1500 value if all matching, and is more likely worth $1600 or so. It's possible to add a black bakelite (plastic) based FXO milled magazine and make this a "matching" luger including magazine, which was not serialized. That would cost $200 to $250 to accomplish.

I can't make out the serial number letter suffix, but it could be "s", sn 1600s ? It's a Mauser made 1941 vintage WW-II Luger with WW-I holster.

Don't store the gun in the holster. It can damage the finish.

Marc

[lugerholsterrepair]

Don't store the gun in the holster. It can damage the finish. I'm curious..was the pistol in the holster when your Friend found it? I suspect it was.

[Sergio Natali]

If it was in the holster probably had been there only for a very short time, that gun seems to have a very good finish to me.

[lugerholsterrepair]

If it was in the holster probably had been there only for a very short time. Contrary to popular belief..I am not a believer that holsters necessarily affect finish. IF they are stored in a proper environment.
I have a test piece..a premium finished Luger stored in a Krieghoff holster. So far, after ten years..no finish deterioration issues. The pistol is oiled lightly once a year.

[Sergio Natali]

Originally Posted by lugerholsterrepair

If it was in the holster probably had been there only for a very short time. Contrary to popular belief..I am not a believer that holsters necessarily affect finish. IF they are stored in a proper environment.
I have a test piece..a premium finished Luger stored in a Krieghoff holster. So far, after ten years..no finish deterioration issues. The pistol is oiled lightly once a year.

Jerry

If you say it I surely take it for true, but do you thnk it may depends on the kind of leather tanning, or on the fact that it's been oiled regularly?

[tenbears]

One of my best friends has been in the reality business for many years has told me about all kinds of treasures he has found or flat out given to him.

[lugerholsterrepair]

Sergio, depends on the kind of leather tanning, or on the fact that it's been oiled regularly? German holsters were vegetable tanned. Nothing terribly toxic about it. Most pistols are irregularly oiled to be sure..I figure once a year is not that often?
There are pro's and con's about storing in a holster. Ten years ago I decided to test it out. Maybe in another ten years I can say for sure...
One thing I can attest to right now. Storing a pistol in a holster isn't good for the holster. The weight puts stress on the belt loop bends if it's stored flat. They have a tendency to crack at the top bend. Inserting the pistol wears both the pistol and holster. I store this one on edge...Don't get me wrong. I am not recommending storing a pistol in a holster cause it's better not to. I was just interested to know IF it hurts the finish. So far I can't see where it has in this case. Now..IF the holster got wet somehow..it all changes.

That's why I was interested to know IF this pistol was found in the holster.

[Desperado]

Marc,

I suspect that legally you are correct about property left in a house once the house is sold. My point is/was inasmuch as it was stated that the pistol was found in the back of a closet shelf it doesn't sound like it was intentionally left. It sounds like it had been pushed back over time and was left because the owner was too short to be able to see all the way back and didn't know he left it. If that was the case it should be returned if it is possible. That's what I would want if the situation was reversed.

I think that morally the correct approach is to try to locate the owner to find out if he wants it. To me its no different than finding a valuable broach behind a drawer of a built-in dresser. Its not mine and it may have much more than economic value to the owner.

Its just the way I try to deal with my fellow man. What's "legal" isn't always what's "right". Given the choice, I try to go for what's right.

'nuff said. I'm off my soapbox and will make no more comments, I just didn't want my original comments misunderstood.

Doug

[DavidJayUden]

I store all my Lugers in their holsters in a temp/climate controlled environment and have for years. I only see them annually, at best, and like to inspect and wipe them off with an oily rag. So far no problems, excepting that blasted Artillery that likes to grow the white moldy stuff on the holster, which I have yet to treat as per Jerry's instructions.
I know this is contrary to popular wisdom, but it is the best option for me at this time.
dju

[danielsand]

This pistol is too nice to be "left behind". Either it was stolen, and "stashed" on that shelf (in which case it will be in PD database), or the previous occupants of the house misplaced it in the move, and reported it stolen (in the move) at that time. In either case, this pistol is "hot", and it should be treated as such (there are ways of "running" the serial number without actually surrendering it to the police).

Doug's suggestion is the best........first, contact the previous owners of the house, and ask them if they are missing a FIREARM (or a weapon). IF they say they are missing an old Luger, do what's right. If they say no (or can't say what exactly they are missing), "run" the serial to be sure it's clean, and then it's finders/keepers. DO NOT attempt to sell it "as found", or you (or your "friend") might be in some hot water in the close future.

[lugerholsterrepair]

The only problem I have with Police and any data base they may have on stolen firearms is the suffix found on Luger pistols. Most people don't see the suffix as part of the serial number. They don't record it or report it. Consequently you MAY run into some confusion. "run" the serial to be sure it's clean, and take your chances..IF it were to show up with the serial AND suffix..OK but highly likely the serial number could be just a 4 digit and that could be wrong. I have a hunch that anyone who leaves a Luger behind didn't bother to record the serial number anywhere.

first, contact the previous owners of the house, and ask them if they are missing a FIREARM (or a weapon). IF they say they are missing an old Luger, do what's right. If they say no (or can't say what exactly they are missing), then it's finders/keepers. Good advice IMO Daniel!

David, So far no problems, excepting that blasted Artillery that likes to grow the white moldy stuff on the holster, which I have yet to treat as per Jerry's instructions. Thanks for the report!

Just be sure you follow instructions to the letter! I had a fellow collector "cover" an artillery with tin foil rather than leave it completely open/exposed , it trapped steam and boiled the holster to death. A valuable lesson learned at about $500.

[mrerick]

I guess I have a big moral problem with people that have so little control over a firearm that they "lose" or "forget" it.

This is how children get killed.

What we don't know is anything about the seller...

Was is a widow or widower that passed away, and the house sold by their estate?

Were they criminals?

We just don't know.

Years ago, when I was still buying used police cars from the local state auction, I was cleaning my Crown Vic when a gold colored high school class ring fell out of the front passenger seat.

Using the school name, year and the inscription on the inside, I was able to locate the original owner and return it. In their case, it was stolen in a household burglary and the perp was caught. He was apparently transported in my car and hid the ring to reduce his association with the crime.

By rights I legally owned it at that point, but what importance was it to me. The owner was very happy to get it back.

But guns lost in a house could be something else again. I think I would contact the seller if they were the last resident of the house and ask them and confirm that they are not missing anything, and if they were satisfied with the closing. I would not disclose what it was or return it without positive identification (serial number / model / mfg) proof.

If the seller was not the last resident, that would eliminate sentimental value.

If they couldn't identify it, that would release my obligation to go further.

Marc

[8milimeter]

Thanks for all the reply's
Its not my house so I do not know the details.
I do know that all laws will be followed.

8mm

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by mrerick

I guess I have a big moral problem with people that have so little control over a firearm that they "lose" or "forget" it.

This is how children get killed.
...
Marc

Yes, I heard it expressed recently in a way that I'll always remember. *Always regard the location and status of a firearm as you would that of a newborn baby.* At least as well, I'd say.