Really nice broomhandle

siegersallee · 09-26-2015, 11:55 AM

Saw this and thought others may find it of interest:

Broomhandle in original case

enjoy,
Richard

sheepherder · 09-26-2015, 12:28 PM

...84 pictures???...

Sheesh...

And the holster in picture #20??? Is that a period 'old west' holster???

Seriously, this does look very nice. I imagine the price will skyrocket over the next eight days.

Sergio Natali · 09-26-2015, 02:45 PM

You're right quite a desirable broomhandle!

Sergio

Ron Wood · 09-26-2015, 03:49 PM

My opinion for what it is worth from an non-Mauser collector, is that the gun is a near perfect "restoration" of what was a very nice example to begin with...in other words, it is an "enhancement" rather than a total restoration. The attachment iron on the stock did not receive the same level of detail as it would appear that the original number was ground off and a matching number applied (particularly look at the number "1" which lacks the bottom serif of the serial number on the gun).
I would gladly have this gun in my collection as it is a lovely example...but I would not pay a premium price for it.
Ron

sheepherder · 09-26-2015, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

The attachment iron on the stock did not receive the same level of detail as it would appear that the original number was ground off and a matching number applied (particularly look at the number "1" which lacks the bottom serif of the serial number on the gun).

That area also looks to be cold-blue retouched...

alvin · 09-26-2015, 06:54 PM

OK. I am a C96 collector, and I don't have a C96 in cardboard box. But I won't bid on this one. Why? Many reasons.

1) This is a WWI production gun. For this WWI variation, the top one is not a 98% mint one. Top one is unit marked C96 with unit marked matching stock. There was one for sale a few years back, unfortunately, I was short of $$ at that time.

2) A cardboard box,,,, big deal? The key accessory for C96 is shoulder stock, and that's this gun's weakest point -- the stock coming with this gun is a joke.

3) Finish... I would say it's a German refurbished gun. Many WWI C96s were refurbished by German in 1920s for exporting. The milling quality and blue looks better than regular WWI production guns. If you viewed many high serial number Red 9s,,,, this one looks like those. Those WWI C96 with s/n 3xxxxx or 4xxxxx are supposed to be rough in milling.

alvin · 09-27-2015, 10:16 AM

The selling point of this one is the cardboard box. Extremely rare. I bookmarked this one, will see how it goes.

Karl · 09-27-2015, 10:48 AM

Is that a "2" under the "1" on the bolt serial number?
KFS

Sergio Natali · 09-27-2015, 01:25 PM

I believe that guns are worth whatever someone will pay.
Surely there are plenty of refinished and restored pistols out there that sell for as much as nice original ones.
Will its price skyrocket over the next days? Presumably yes, as we can see isn't very likely that this gun was used at the 1898 Battle of Omdurman and during the Second Boer War, it's a commercial one built for the export market; and it was probably restored in the past, but come on it's over a century old and still with its original cardboard box!

Sergio

alvin · 09-27-2015, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karl

Is that a "2" under the "1" on the bolt serial number?
KFS

I think so. The bolt was renumbered.

There are many indicators leading viewers to believe this is a refurbished gun: C/C/U on this variation under blue is not right, grip panels do not look right either, better milling than average, etc.. all can be explained as German refurbishing. But GERMANY also under blue is weird, unless GERMANY was added before refurbishing... Plus this renumbered bolt.

It's already $2725. Mint original standard C96 with matching stock from Sturgess collection sold $10k in Julia. That's the roof. This one may still have room on gunbroker.com. We will check a week later.

Sergio Natali · 09-27-2015, 01:33 PM

... moreover after reading the short "Mauser C96 history" bY GUN BROKER I'd like to add that the "broomhandle" was never the standard issued pistol of Imperial Germany as it failed the army tests. If I'm not wrong Germany was compelled to enter into a contract with Mauser for the C96 because they were desperately short of service pistols, and broomhandles were issued only to reservists.

Sergio

alvin · 09-27-2015, 01:45 PM

The main usage of this type of pistol did not happen in Germany, of course. Germany and her allies did buy about 300,000 C96, but,,, looking at Red 9 for example, so many of them still have mint bores even today. The biggest user of this type of gun were Chinese warlords, nationalist, and communist, they needed a combat pistol requiring relatively low maintenance, and this pistol matched their need.

MikeP · 09-28-2015, 07:41 PM

As always, some great observations.

Olle · 09-30-2015, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alvin

all can be explained as German refurbishing. But GERMANY also under blue is weird, unless GERMANY was added before refurbishing... Plus this renumbered bolt.

Wouldn't the "GERMANY" stamp indicate an exported gun, so why do you suspect a German refurbish?

I don't think I would be too worried about the double number on the bolt though. It looks like those "one number off" factory mistakes that was corrected. I have seen this on quite a few guns, and the most likely scenario IMO is that the worker who stamped it had a bad day, and the error was corrected before the gun left the factory. Could have been done by the worker who stamped it to begin with, or the worker who assembled the gun. It would be less likely that a modern day owner happened to find a bolt that close in the number range and renumbered it. I have had two or three guns with similar number changes, so I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

alvin · 09-30-2015, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olle

Wouldn't the "GERMANY" stamp indicate an exported gun, so why do you suspect a German refurbish?

For exporting, exporter also wanted to sell a good price. Compare with those prewar C96, wartime production's milling and fitting quality was relatively low. To sell a better price, enhancing surplus pistols a little bit for exporting was very natural.

The Standard C96, in a seller's words (not this seller) that I totally agree "every kid should have one of these - Mauser Standard C96". Although being common, super nice samples of this variation are very collectible. Those rare 6-shot and 20-shot cannot replace Standard C96's position in a collection -- this was the variation making this type of pistol world famous.

I have gotten mine:

alvin · 10-01-2015, 09:01 PM

I am very surprised that a collector friend called me asking about this gunbroker C96 with cardboard box. He's relatively new in the field and mainly buys things based on sellers' reputation... He is attracted by this gunbroker C96, Needless to say, he's happy with the seller in the past, "he's a great guy". Great guy's items must be all great, that's the assumption.

After I told him all those points, he asked "with all those that you mentioned, what's price for it?"... well, after hearing this analysis, he's still attracted, then, it's hard to answer, that depends on bidders.

===

[Edit] I recommended him to take a serious look on Legacy's flatside and sent him the link.... has money to spend is good, and should spend on the right thing. It's up to him though, it's his money

Olle · 10-01-2015, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alvin

For exporting, exporter also wanted to sell a good price. Compare with those prewar C96, wartime production's milling and fitting quality was relatively low. To sell a better price, enhancing surplus pistols a little bit for exporting was very natural.

So when you say "surplus", you're talking about brand new guns that were never issued to the military? Or did the actually refinish and enhance used guns for export?

alvin · 10-01-2015, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olle

So when you say "surplus", you're talking about brand new guns that were never issued to the military? Or did the actually refinish and enhance used guns for export?

On old dealer catalog, there was a category described as "reconditioned". It's unclear its state before exporting. For this shape, it's at most lightly used even it had been issued in the war.

RoyalTermite · 10-04-2015, 10:43 PM

Wow, $7155

alvin · 10-04-2015, 10:59 PM

A super nice standard c96 in Sturgess collection sold a little bit over $10k (BP included), with Simpson LTD importer stamp.

I sold a few standard c96s varying in condition in the past, from $750 to $4000. Of course, my best standard variation is still in my collection.

The collector friend talked to me earlier sent me an email. After hearing this gunbroker.com one has certain issues, he's scared... "Water is too deep. Will take a break until end of the year"... he does not like Bolo, and he does not like Flatside, he likes those milled panel full size.

09-26-2015, 11:55 AM	#1
siegersallee User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 292 Thanks: 107 Thanked 57 Times in 34 Posts	Really nice broomhandle Saw this and thought others may find it of interest: Broomhandle in original case enjoy, Richard __________________ "Für Gott, Kaiser, und Vaterland" -seeking: Erfrut Mag 1229 (no script)

09-26-2015, 02:45 PM	#3
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,087 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	You're right quite a desirable broomhandle! Sergio __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

09-26-2015, 03:49 PM	#4
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,040 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,257 Times in 1,724 Posts	My opinion for what it is worth from an non-Mauser collector, is that the gun is a near perfect "restoration" of what was a very nice example to begin with...in other words, it is an "enhancement" rather than a total restoration. The attachment iron on the stock did not receive the same level of detail as it would appear that the original number was ground off and a matching number applied (particularly look at the number "1" which lacks the bottom serif of the serial number on the gun). I would gladly have this gun in my collection as it is a lovely example...but I would not pay a premium price for it. Ron __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

09-27-2015, 01:25 PM	#9
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,087 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	I believe that guns are worth whatever someone will pay. Surely there are plenty of refinished and restored pistols out there that sell for as much as nice original ones. Will its price skyrocket over the next days? Presumably yes, as we can see isn't very likely that this gun was used at the 1898 Battle of Omdurman and during the Second Boer War, it's a commercial one built for the export market; and it was probably restored in the past, but come on it's over a century old and still with its original cardboard box! Sergio __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

09-27-2015, 01:33 PM	#11
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,087 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	... moreover after reading the short "Mauser C96 history" bY GUN BROKER I'd like to add that the "broomhandle" was never the standard issued pistol of Imperial Germany as it failed the army tests. If I'm not wrong Germany was compelled to enter into a contract with Mauser for the C96 because they were desperately short of service pistols, and broomhandles were issued only to reservists. Sergio __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

09-26-2015, 12:28 PM	#2
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,197 Thanks: 1,416 Thanked 4,462 Times in 2,336 Posts	...84 pictures???... Sheesh... And the holster in picture #20??? Is that a period 'old west' holster??? Seriously, this does look very nice. I imagine the price will skyrocket over the next eight days. __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

09-26-2015, 06:54 PM	#6
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	OK. I am a C96 collector, and I don't have a C96 in cardboard box. But I won't bid on this one. Why? Many reasons. 1) This is a WWI production gun. For this WWI variation, the top one is not a 98% mint one. Top one is unit marked C96 with unit marked matching stock. There was one for sale a few years back, unfortunately, I was short of $$ at that time. 2) A cardboard box,,,, big deal? The key accessory for C96 is shoulder stock, and that's this gun's weakest point -- the stock coming with this gun is a joke. 3) Finish... I would say it's a German refurbished gun. Many WWI C96s were refurbished by German in 1920s for exporting. The milling quality and blue looks better than regular WWI production guns. If you viewed many high serial number Red 9s,,,, this one looks like those. Those WWI C96 with s/n 3xxxxx or 4xxxxx are supposed to be rough in milling.

09-27-2015, 10:16 AM	#7
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	The selling point of this one is the cardboard box. Extremely rare. I bookmarked this one, will see how it goes.

09-27-2015, 10:48 AM	#8
Karl Lifer - Twice Over Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Savannah Posts: 530 Thanks: 0 Thanked 280 Times in 123 Posts	Is that a "2" under the "1" on the bolt serial number? KFS

09-27-2015, 01:45 PM	#12
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	The main usage of this type of pistol did not happen in Germany, of course. Germany and her allies did buy about 300,000 C96, but,,, looking at Red 9 for example, so many of them still have mint bores even today. The biggest user of this type of gun were Chinese warlords, nationalist, and communist, they needed a combat pistol requiring relatively low maintenance, and this pistol matched their need.

09-28-2015, 07:41 PM	#13
MikeP User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: ILL Posts: 686 Thanks: 36 Thanked 452 Times in 198 Posts	As always, some great observations.

10-01-2015, 09:01 PM	#16
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	I am very surprised that a collector friend called me asking about this gunbroker C96 with cardboard box. He's relatively new in the field and mainly buys things based on sellers' reputation... He is attracted by this gunbroker C96, Needless to say, he's happy with the seller in the past, "he's a great guy". Great guy's items must be all great, that's the assumption. After I told him all those points, he asked "with all those that you mentioned, what's price for it?"... well, after hearing this analysis, he's still attracted, then, it's hard to answer, that depends on bidders. === [Edit] I recommended him to take a serious look on Legacy's flatside and sent him the link.... has money to spend is good, and should spend on the right thing. It's up to him though, it's his money Last edited by alvin; 10-01-2015 at 10:49 PM.

10-04-2015, 10:43 PM	#19
RoyalTermite User Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Kennett Square. PA Posts: 66 Thanks: 42 Thanked 60 Times in 22 Posts	Wow, $7155

10-04-2015, 10:59 PM	#20
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	A super nice standard c96 in Sturgess collection sold a little bit over $10k (BP included), with Simpson LTD importer stamp. I sold a few standard c96s varying in condition in the past, from $750 to $4000. Of course, my best standard variation is still in my collection. The collector friend talked to me earlier sent me an email. After hearing this gunbroker.com one has certain issues, he's scared... "Water is too deep. Will take a break until end of the year"... he does not like Bolo, and he does not like Flatside, he likes those milled panel full size.