Repaired, created, or cloned- 4" P 08 with '06 navy sight

[DonVoigt]

P 08 s an P 04 types were produced with either new or shortened 4" barrels in the Weimar era.

They are pretty scarce pieces, but are the inspiration for this shooter!

In my quest for pieces for the '06 basket case restoration, I accumulated a number of parts. One of which is an essentially complete '06 upper, which will be used for the '06 restoration.

So, with pieces on hand with no home and help from various members here, I assembled this clone.

It is built on a '37 Mauser lower, '38 Mauser receiver,
commercial 4" bbl, and the toggle train from the '06 Navy.

I took her out for a date yesterday, and she fires, cycles, and behaves perfectly- a great shooter and a little out of the ordinary.

I have to borrow a 9mm P reamer to finish ream the chamber, it is marginally short; in fact I had to select some ammo that would let the toggle close completely for the test firing.

When it is finished, I'll fire for group, to see how much too low, if any, the front sight is. Yes, I know it is not a P 08 sight, but is what I had that only took and hour with needle files to fit to the sight base dovetail.

Don't ask what it finally cost- I don't want to talk about it!

[Edward Tinker]

If you're making a mixmasterluger, go for what sounds cool to you!

[John Sabato]

I am pretty sure that if the front sight is of inadequate height for the rear sight, that the grouping will be very high, and not low...

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by John Sabato

I am pretty sure that if the front sight is of inadequate height for the rear sight, that the grouping will be very high, and not low...

John,
like the commercial says: "everyone knows that"!

I said "low" in reference to the height of the sight, not the group.

I measured an original Navy sight, an original 4", and this one; mine shown is about mid way between the other two.
I'm not going to fire at 100 yards, but maybe 7; so the group will not be so high as to be impractical.

Once I find how high the group is, i can calculate how much Higher the front sight needs to be.

[John Sabato]

Your front sight mod may work for your intended purpose. As I recall the difference in height between a standard 4" and a 6" Navy is approximately 0.1 inches or between 2 and 3 MM.

[sheepherder]

Sort of interesting. Gerry Tomek has stated that he will be producing 6" barrels; that might be the way to go.

There are still some of the Numrich 6" barrels, in both 7.65 & 9mm, around. They show up on GB occasionally.

Tom Heller might even have a 5" or 6" barrel.

[DonVoigt]

Sheepherder,
I have an original 6" barrel, but it won't screw into the Mauser receiver but one turn; must be a tolerance stack that went against me. If it had screwed in I would have a P 08 Navy Luger clone instead.

Next spare receiver I find, I'll see if the 6" '06 bbl will work. I have a breeching washer from Tom Heller to fit the long thread '06 bbl to a short receiver.

Wonder if Numrich would honor a new order at those prices?

John,
when I measured I think I came up with 2.5mm difference, so you're right on in memory.

[Sergio Natali]

Don


May I say "bravo" for your "mixmasterluger" really cool indeed!

All the best.

Sergio

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

I have an original 6" barrel, but it won't screw into the Mauser receiver but one turn; must be a tolerance stack that went against me.

Like Rick W. says, an easy fix...IF everything else lines up...

Here's a 6" barrel being threaded now...

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by Rick W.

Chasing an previously existing thread on the barrel shank is not an overly complex routine. One only has to reinsert the barrel timing wise back into the lathe and cut away carefully. I was attempting to suggest a method to possibly use what was on hand. It is difficult for me to be a fan of washers in breeching, just my own opinion there.

Thanks Rick,
you're correct, only problem is i don't have a lathe.
Requires a trip to my friend's place; he is a master gage maker and could do it.

But, since it was screwed into it's original receiver, I really didn't want to change the barrel from around 1906.

I figured since the receiver is a Mauser from 1938, that the threads in the receiver are just a little too "tight" or small.
I'd rather chase the threads in the receiver.

The 4" barrel I did fit reguired some file work on the threads and the flange to get it to screw in and time; i.e. it was a little tight too.

As to the washer, short of finding a long receiver or cutting the end of the barrel and re-chambering, I don't know how to avoid the washer when installing the long thread barrel into the short thread receiver.

Thanks in advance for any ideas.

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by sheepherder

Like Rick W. says, an easy fix...IF everything else lines up...

Here's a 6" barrel being threaded now...

Cool, now how are you going to "time" the front sight?

[sheepherder]

It be magic...

[Lugerdoc]

Sorry guys, but I too am sold out of new 9mm barrels of all lenghts. TH

[John Sabato]

Originally Posted by sheepherder

It be magic...

As I recall, I think Rich doesn't even mill the front sight base until after fitting the barrel and chambering installed in the receiver... Am I correct about your 'magic' ?

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by John Sabato

As I recall, I think Rich doesn't even mill the front sight base until after fitting the barrel and chambering installed in the receiver... Am I correct about your 'magic' ?

That's kinda what I figured; not "magic" more like "cheating", but just a little.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by John Sabato

As I recall, I think Rich doesn't even mill the front sight base until after fitting the barrel and chambering installed in the receiver... Am I correct about your 'magic' ?

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

That's kinda what I figured; not "magic" more like "cheating", but just a little.

I had originally posted a link or Search to a thread about 'odd Numrich barrels' but when I checked it I remembered it was for a barrel that had NO front sight base, so I fabricated one...

That doesn't help you...You have a barrel with a front sight base. If you chase your thread, you'll be able to screw it into your barrel extension and find out where you are. The thread is 20tpi which is .050" between threads. With a 'crush factor' of ~.004", the most you could be off is ~.046". That is, if you screwed it in all the way until you couldn't tighten it any more [by hand], and the front sight was exactly 12:00 o'clock, then you'd need to take .046" off the flange. But it won't be that much, so you could thin the flange and cut back the OAL and get a proper fit. But you would almost certainly need to deepen the chamber, and re-cut the extractor notch and feed ramp.

Adding a shim to a mis-matched barrel/extension combination opens up similar cans of worms. Will it need tweaking? Cut chamber, notch, ramp? Thin the shim?

There is a thread here somewhere where that was done with a OEM Luger barrel, but I've lost it...

I would chase your barrel thread and see whatcha got...

[DonVoigt]

Thanks Guys.

As they say in the old country: "nothing difficult is ever easy!"

Sheepherder,
20 tpi and 0.50 pitch, but what is the spec diameter?

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

Sheepherder,
20 tpi and 0.50 pitch, but what is the spec diameter?

Extract of the print is up in the 'doubt' thread...