Please help identify my Luger

50megawatts · 02-12-2015, 11:58 PM

Gentlemen,

This is my first post. About twelve years ago a co-worker invited me to go shooting after work (my first time). He brought along a Luger and I was hooked. Several years later I bought it from him for $425. Wanting to learn about the gun, I purchased Lugers at Random. I'll humbly admit that, even with the reference book, with so many variations I don't know much more about the gun than I did the first day I saw it. I've always admired the 'friendly expertise' exhibited by the experts on the Luger Forum. I'd like to ask for your collective help identifying my Luger. Tell me as much as you can. All I can say for sure is that it is a 'new model' Luger. On the underside of the barrel it says 'Made in Germany'. I can't make sense of the text to the left of that phrase. The grips are black plastic. I've never seen them in any pictures of other Lugers. The magazine is an after-market part. On the top of the gun, behind the barrel where many of the guns have a year stamp, mine has nothing (appears that it was possibly ground-off?)

Thanks in advance for taking a look. Enjoy the photos.

Regards,
John

50megawatts · 02-13-2015, 12:07 AM

I have a few more pictures, but hit the limit at ten. One of them is of the top of the gun that shows the "DWM" inscription.

sheepherder · 02-13-2015, 12:34 AM

The grips are Russian. I have a set - They go for ~$150-$200 on eBay/GB.

The 'Russian Capture' Lugers can often be found with X'd out numbers, new barrels, mix of old & new parts, and a 'hot dip' blued finish.

Your frame is a Mauser (it has the hump). I think the indecipherable barrel marking is the importer.

tharpo · 02-13-2015, 12:38 AM

If the top of the gun shows DWM than it is a mismatched Luger. The right side of the receiver has Mauser Eagle/63 stamps.

alanint · 02-13-2015, 06:39 AM

Welcome to the forum!

You are missing a photo of the toggle, which is critical for an overall assesment of the pistol.

As mentioned, this is a Russian capture Luger, later imported into the US by C.D.I. = Classic Distributors, Incorporated, Airport Road, Building #2, Swanton, Vermont, 05488. This company is no longer in business, but they imported thousands of SKS Carbines and SVT40 rifles from Russia at one time.
You paid an excellent price for your Luger shooter and as mentioned, if you part out the grips for $150+ and get some decent walnut repros, you will have an extra $50-$100 in your pocket.

DavidJayUden · 02-13-2015, 07:42 AM

You have what is commonly referred to here as a "shooter" grade Luger, due to non-matching parts, refinish, non-original grips, and non-original markings.
It should be a hoot at the range, and you paid a very good price for it, as generally these guns start around $700 and can get pretty close to $1k in asking price.
Enjoy!
dju

sheepherder · 02-13-2015, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

You have what is commonly referred to here as a "shooter" grade Luger, due to non-matching parts, refinish, non-original grips, and non-original markings.

Which is not to say that it's sub-standard - quite the opposite. The VoPo/Russian Capture Lugers (and P-38's & others) were refurbished with a mix of newly manufactured and quality-checked parts by East German (and Russian?) armorers after the war and then put into storage or limited use. They make excellent shooters and are coming into their own small niche as 'collectibles'.

50megawatts · 02-14-2015, 11:42 AM

Guys...thanks for the warm welcome and all of the useful information. Now that it's been mentioned, it does appear that the stamp on the underside of the barrel references "CDI". I really love the gun...its look and feel, even given the fact that it's a mis-match. I'll be less reluctant to take it out to shoot, afterall! What parts would have been replaced? All of the numbered parts (i.e., 2577) match. If the front toggle link is not original, does that imply that the "77" stamp is fake? Did these guns end-up as Russian Capture's because they were previously damaged or were they truly taken during the war? Here are the photos of the top of the gun. I welcome any additional comments.
Thanks, again.

alanint · 02-14-2015, 01:39 PM

Your gun does not show any evidence of "scrubbing" so the Russian armorer probably dipped into the bins of parts they had to come up with a matching "77" WW1 DWM toggle link to match the balance of the pistol. The rest of the gun is WW2 Mauser.

The gun was probably captured by the Russians, placed into storage and later issued to the East Germans or other Soviet satellite.

4 Scale · 02-14-2015, 01:47 PM

The numbered, matching parts on a Luger are normally the frame, barrel, receiver (full serial number) then other parts that have the last two digits. The other parts include the take-down lever, trigger, grips (if wood, for some model years but not all), side plate, breech bolt, front and rear toggles, toggle pin, firing pin and hold-open.

As post #7 points out, it appears your gun was re-worked and therefore it is overly harsh to call the re-numbering "fake". The renumbering is part of the gun's history, for its new service post-capture.

We would need to see high quality photos of each numbered part to answer your question of which parts have been renumbered. Experienced collectors can often tell by the letter style, strike depth etc. when a part has been renumbered. To my eye, the front toggle number doesn't look right and is therefore likely renumbered, the other photos are not clear enough to answer your question.

Your comment re: shooting the weapon actually tracks with the practices of collectors. Pistols such as yours are often sought specifically for their utility as firearms to be shot ("shooters") precisely because the mis-matched numbers create a piece where breakage of a part via use now does not hurt the overall value of the piece. Whereas, a Luger where the parts all match and the gun is in good or better original condition suffer a big value decline if a numbered part breaks.

Congratulations on your find, I think it looks great and should give you a lot of pleasure as both a good example and a fun pistol to fire. Also, it has a number of its original proof marks and that bit of history adds to the interest. Sometimes those proofs are lost when the gun is refurbished, but your pistol has proofs on the right side of the receiver and barrel that remain from its original German manufacture as a pistol for the German military.

02-12-2015, 11:58 PM	#1
50megawatts User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Raytown, MO Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post	Please help identify my Luger Gentlemen, This is my first post. About twelve years ago a co-worker invited me to go shooting after work (my first time). He brought along a Luger and I was hooked. Several years later I bought it from him for $425. Wanting to learn about the gun, I purchased Lugers at Random. I'll humbly admit that, even with the reference book, with so many variations I don't know much more about the gun than I did the first day I saw it. I've always admired the 'friendly expertise' exhibited by the experts on the Luger Forum. I'd like to ask for your collective help identifying my Luger. Tell me as much as you can. All I can say for sure is that it is a 'new model' Luger. On the underside of the barrel it says 'Made in Germany'. I can't make sense of the text to the left of that phrase. The grips are black plastic. I've never seen them in any pictures of other Lugers. The magazine is an after-market part. On the top of the gun, behind the barrel where many of the guns have a year stamp, mine has nothing (appears that it was possibly ground-off?) Thanks in advance for taking a look. Enjoy the photos. Regards, John Attached Thumbnails

02-13-2015, 12:34 AM	#3
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,197 Thanks: 1,416 Thanked 4,462 Times in 2,336 Posts	The grips are Russian. I have a set - They go for ~$150-$200 on eBay/GB. The 'Russian Capture' Lugers can often be found with X'd out numbers, new barrels, mix of old & new parts, and a 'hot dip' blued finish. Your frame is a Mauser (it has the hump). I think the indecipherable barrel marking is the importer. __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

02-14-2015, 11:42 AM	#8
50megawatts User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Raytown, MO Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post	Guys...thanks for the warm welcome and all of the useful information. Now that it's been mentioned, it does appear that the stamp on the underside of the barrel references "CDI". I really love the gun...its look and feel, even given the fact that it's a mis-match. I'll be less reluctant to take it out to shoot, afterall! What parts would have been replaced? All of the numbered parts (i.e., 2577) match. If the front toggle link is not original, does that imply that the "77" stamp is fake? Did these guns end-up as Russian Capture's because they were previously damaged or were they truly taken during the war? Here are the photos of the top of the gun. I welcome any additional comments. Thanks, again. Attached Thumbnails

02-13-2015, 12:07 AM	#2
50megawatts User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Raytown, MO Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post	I have a few more pictures, but hit the limit at ten. One of them is of the top of the gun that shows the "DWM" inscription.

02-13-2015, 12:38 AM	#4
tharpo Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: West Coast, USA Posts: 543 Thanks: 118 Thanked 383 Times in 158 Posts	If the top of the gun shows DWM than it is a mismatched Luger. The right side of the receiver has Mauser Eagle/63 stamps.

02-13-2015, 06:39 AM	#5
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	Welcome to the forum! You are missing a photo of the toggle, which is critical for an overall assesment of the pistol. As mentioned, this is a Russian capture Luger, later imported into the US by C.D.I. = Classic Distributors, Incorporated, Airport Road, Building #2, Swanton, Vermont, 05488. This company is no longer in business, but they imported thousands of SKS Carbines and SVT40 rifles from Russia at one time. You paid an excellent price for your Luger shooter and as mentioned, if you part out the grips for $150+ and get some decent walnut repros, you will have an extra $50-$100 in your pocket.

02-13-2015, 07:42 AM	#6
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	You have what is commonly referred to here as a "shooter" grade Luger, due to non-matching parts, refinish, non-original grips, and non-original markings. It should be a hoot at the range, and you paid a very good price for it, as generally these guns start around $700 and can get pretty close to $1k in asking price. Enjoy! dju

02-14-2015, 01:39 PM	#9
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	Your gun does not show any evidence of "scrubbing" so the Russian armorer probably dipped into the bins of parts they had to come up with a matching "77" WW1 DWM toggle link to match the balance of the pistol. The rest of the gun is WW2 Mauser. The gun was probably captured by the Russians, placed into storage and later issued to the East Germans or other Soviet satellite.

02-14-2015, 01:47 PM	#10
4 Scale User Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 544 Thanks: 194 Thanked 490 Times in 251 Posts	The numbered, matching parts on a Luger are normally the frame, barrel, receiver (full serial number) then other parts that have the last two digits. The other parts include the take-down lever, trigger, grips (if wood, for some model years but not all), side plate, breech bolt, front and rear toggles, toggle pin, firing pin and hold-open. As post #7 points out, it appears your gun was re-worked and therefore it is overly harsh to call the re-numbering "fake". The renumbering is part of the gun's history, for its new service post-capture. We would need to see high quality photos of each numbered part to answer your question of which parts have been renumbered. Experienced collectors can often tell by the letter style, strike depth etc. when a part has been renumbered. To my eye, the front toggle number doesn't look right and is therefore likely renumbered, the other photos are not clear enough to answer your question. Your comment re: shooting the weapon actually tracks with the practices of collectors. Pistols such as yours are often sought specifically for their utility as firearms to be shot ("shooters") precisely because the mis-matched numbers create a piece where breakage of a part via use now does not hurt the overall value of the piece. Whereas, a Luger where the parts all match and the gun is in good or better original condition suffer a big value decline if a numbered part breaks. Congratulations on your find, I think it looks great and should give you a lot of pleasure as both a good example and a fun pistol to fire. Also, it has a number of its original proof marks and that bit of history adds to the interest. Sometimes those proofs are lost when the gun is refurbished, but your pistol has proofs on the right side of the receiver and barrel that remain from its original German manufacture as a pistol for the German military.