Zorba's P.38

Zorba · 01-24-2015, 12:02 AM

Spreewerk P.38 'v' block (Oct 1944):

Took 'er apart, cleaned the bbl, oiled everything, blah, blah. Bore is even better than I had thought. I knew it had a small amount of frost, but once I got at least 12 years of dust/crud out of the bbl, the frosting is almost non-existent. I have to really be looking for it to see it, otherwise the bore is a mirror.

Ran some snap caps through, worked fine on the mag that came with the gun; but the pair of "used but good condition" mags need new springs, one of them FTFs every rd, the other only occasionally. Pretty much what I expected there.

Going to the range on Sunday, but am not expecting to take this one (even though my wife is all hot and bothered to shoot it - and she doesn't like semi-autos!) as my Wolff recoil springs are on back order and I have zero idea of how good/bad the existing ones are. Probably just fine, but I don't want to find out the hard way that they weren't and break something - I've been told that P.38s can have bad things happen to them if the springs aren't up to snuff. Wife says "Fine, we'll just go to the range again next weekend!!".

If she somehow decides that she wants to "steal" the pistol, I'll have to buy her another one as I don't want to shoot this one very much/often!

alvin · 01-24-2015, 07:40 AM

P38 is an interesting pistol.

There was a Mauser P38 for sale on GB a few days ago which was attractive. Thought about bidding on it, but it's not in domain, there are some uncertainties, so I did not bid.

Is this price too high for this gun? Here is the link:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=463134707

alvin · 01-24-2015, 09:58 AM

Postwar Interarms P1 is a very well made gun. I had one in the past, fired 5000-6000 rounds "Winchester White Box" from it. The only thing that I dislike .. the frame is aluminum, and the bore had a liner installed. But I heard installing a liner being standard practice in P1.

Sometimes, I am thinking expanding collection a little bit to cover a few Mauser made P38, Luger, Pocket/Vest Pocket, and revolver,,, but each domain has variations, some domains have long list of variations, it's hard to setup a collection in any domain without pouring much more $$ into this hobby. So had to control "impulsive desire". Anyway, byf P38, or svw P38 are interesting guns... absolute price of byf is not far away from current production guns...

alvin · 01-24-2015, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheepherder

True test of WWII P-38 is to sit in your car, magazine full, insert in P-38, rack slide, press safety/decocking lever. This simple test will show any defects in workmanship, quality control, labor disputes.

A gun that could go off without pulling trigger is worse than a gun that does not go off when trigger is pulled..

Is this a unique problem on cyq? Does Mauser or Walther also present similar issue on their late production?

mrerick · 01-24-2015, 11:05 AM

Zorba,

Congratulations on your new P.38. It looks very nice. I especially like the cog hammer.

I can't tell from the pictures, and with lack of sn and suffix am not sure, but this one (from the better quality of the milling work) looks like it could be an earlier CYQ Spreewerk.

You'll like Ron Clarin's book (I see you ordered it from him over at the P.38 forum).

I've been collecting for a number of years, and have yet to find a CYQ to add to the collection, especially one as nice as yours!

Marc

Zorba · 01-24-2015, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrerick

I can't tell from the pictures, and with lack of sn and suffix am not sure, but this one (from the better quality of the milling work) looks like it could be an earlier CYQ Spreewerk.

'v' block, October 1944. It *is* in pretty remarkable condition and isn't too awfully crude either.

Zorba · 01-24-2015, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alvin

P38 is an interesting pistol.

There was a Mauser P38 for sale on GB a few days ago which was attractive. Thought about bidding on it, but it's not in domain, there are some uncertainties, so I did not bid.

Is this price too high for this gun? Here is the link:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=463134707

As a data point, I was offered a Mauser P.38 for $1050 that had a better finish than the one linked here - but IMHO the gunbroker gun sold for a fair enough price with the usual caveats. But I'm *NOT* an expert on the subject, I'm just a Belly Dancer who collects guns!

Zorba · 01-24-2015, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheepherder

Doesn't look too bad. Buy wife a P1; exactly the same but lighter (aluminum frame). P1's run ~$500.

True test of WWII P-38 is to sit in your car, magazine full, insert in P-38, rack slide, press safety/decocking lever. This simple test will show any defects in workmanship, quality control, labor disputes.

Make sure window is UP.

Weapon should either be pointed towards the door - or straight up towards the roof!

saab-bob · 01-24-2015, 07:46 PM

Zompas
Congrats!
A good friend has one ,that we have shot ,alot ,with no issues.
Supposedly the steel on the Spreewerk pistol was better quality then the Walther or Mauser made ones. This was due to the fact that Spreewerk primarily made artillery,which required a higher grade of steel. That steel was also used on the pistols.
Fun stuff.
Bob

alvin · 01-24-2015, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saab-bob

Supposedly the steel on the Spreewerk pistol was better quality then the Walther or Mauser made ones

Why? Mauser claimed they used "finest qualities of steel" on M1930. I assumed they also used same steel on their other products.. no?

The following was copied from M1930 User's manual:

"Endurance. Racking tests with pistols of current massproduction illustrates its reliability under extreme condition....

This extreme durability is assured by the uses of the finest qualities of steel, each specially adapted to the purpose of the particular part"

Finest steel in Mauser.

alvin · 01-24-2015, 08:27 PM

After watching movie "Schindler's List", I felt it's very doubtful that slave workers dared to perform significant sabotage in a Czech factory... just keeping alive was a serious challenge in that environment, how many workers still had extra energy to perform sabotage...

But saying their skill not being top, I have no doubt. Many of them probably were not machinists at all. Musicians, historians, teachers, doctors, etc, lots of professionals, except machinists. But everyone claimed being a machinist.

saab-bob · 01-24-2015, 09:37 PM

Here is a intereting blog about the history of the P-38.

http://ozarkbeararms.blogspot.com/20...ol-series.html

Bob

alvin · 01-24-2015, 10:37 PM

Thanks for the link. Just read through it. The author wrote it in typical collector style... and unlike sheepherder, most collectors don't play that safety lever with a living round in chamber... so not surprisingly, he did not report this gun could go off that way

And, no steel quality was mentioned on ac, byf, nor cyq -- that's absolutely not observable by just watching it.

But he mentioned French "Grey Ghost" variation, I guess it's the P38 with steel grip panels? Very interesting stuff, looks like all collectors love the same thing.

alvin · 01-24-2015, 10:50 PM

And, the author said "4) The ejection port of the P.38 is very large, which means it is quite difficult for the pistol to 'stove pipe' a casing."

That's in theory, but it is against my experience with Interarms P1. According to my statistics, it could fire about 450 rounds flawlessly between malfunctions. And, all malfunctions that I experienced was "stove pipe". Not sure why though. All ammo was same Winchester White Box. I would say, it's easy to clear "stove pipe" issue due to its big ejection port.

Sergio Natali · 01-25-2015, 06:16 AM

Bob
Thanks also from me about your interesting link.

Sergio

alvin · 01-25-2015, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheepherder

How does a collector apply the safety???

I don't know other collectors. But I seldom touch safety lever on C96. For two reasons:

1) Avoid wearing. This is obvious. To protect the fire blue on the knob.
2) Not really necessary. It's not a daily carry gun, I never play guns with a living round in chamber (except in range). While in range, I never holster a gun with living round in chamber. This is a big operational difference between a historical user and a collector user, I know, but ... I am not a historical user. C96 safety was much more important for its historical user.

Playing safety lever is limited on inspection stage, beside checking its number, also checking it's working as expected or not.. after that,, mostly, untouched.

I bet P38 collectors being same.

alvin · 01-25-2015, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheepherder

Ah, you are expert.

No, I am not expert. Just a regular gun lover. No other hobbies, only this one.

alvin · 01-25-2015, 11:16 AM

No problem. We'll learn from each other. I notice people collecting different guns, each has something that I have never heard of in the past. Internet is a great invention.

Sergio Natali · 01-25-2015, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alvin

No problem. We'll learn from each other. I notice people collecting different guns, each has something that I have never heard of in the past. Internet is a great invention.

I agree completely same for me, I learn something new about handguns almost every day, thanks to especially this forum members, but also to other forums I take part of.

Sergio

Zorba · 01-25-2015, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luger.parabellum

I agree completely same for me, I learn something new about handguns almost every day, thanks to especially this forum members, but also to other forums I take part of.

Sergio

Totally!!

01-24-2015, 12:02 AM	#1
Zorba User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Merritt Island, Fl Posts: 952 Thanks: 777 Thanked 528 Times in 290 Posts	Zorba's P.38 Spreewerk P.38 'v' block (Oct 1944): Took 'er apart, cleaned the bbl, oiled everything, blah, blah. Bore is even better than I had thought. I knew it had a small amount of frost, but once I got at least 12 years of dust/crud out of the bbl, the frosting is almost non-existent. I have to really be looking for it to see it, otherwise the bore is a mirror. Ran some snap caps through, worked fine on the mag that came with the gun; but the pair of "used but good condition" mags need new springs, one of them FTFs every rd, the other only occasionally. Pretty much what I expected there. Going to the range on Sunday, but am not expecting to take this one (even though my wife is all hot and bothered to shoot it - and she doesn't like semi-autos!) as my Wolff recoil springs are on back order and I have zero idea of how good/bad the existing ones are. Probably just fine, but I don't want to find out the hard way that they weren't and break something - I've been told that P.38s can have bad things happen to them if the springs aren't up to snuff. Wife says "Fine, we'll just go to the range again next weekend!!". If she somehow decides that she wants to "steal" the pistol, I'll have to buy her another one as I don't want to shoot this one very much/often!

01-24-2015, 11:05 AM	#5
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,920 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,135 Times in 1,518 Posts	Zorba, Congratulations on your new P.38. It looks very nice. I especially like the cog hammer. I can't tell from the pictures, and with lack of sn and suffix am not sure, but this one (from the better quality of the milling work) looks like it could be an earlier CYQ Spreewerk. You'll like Ron Clarin's book (I see you ordered it from him over at the P.38 forum). I've been collecting for a number of years, and have yet to find a CYQ to add to the collection, especially one as nice as yours! Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

01-24-2015, 07:46 PM	#9
saab-bob User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: So Cal Posts: 459 Thanks: 774 Thanked 143 Times in 87 Posts	Zompas Congrats! A good friend has one ,that we have shot ,alot ,with no issues. Supposedly the steel on the Spreewerk pistol was better quality then the Walther or Mauser made ones. This was due to the fact that Spreewerk primarily made artillery,which required a higher grade of steel. That steel was also used on the pistols. Fun stuff. Bob __________________ "I think,therefore I own guns"

01-24-2015, 09:37 PM	#12
saab-bob User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: So Cal Posts: 459 Thanks: 774 Thanked 143 Times in 87 Posts	Here is a intereting blog about the history of the P-38. http://ozarkbeararms.blogspot.com/20...ol-series.html Bob __________________ "I think,therefore I own guns"

01-25-2015, 06:16 AM	#15
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,087 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	Bob Thanks also from me about your interesting link. Sergio __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

01-24-2015, 07:40 AM	#2
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	P38 is an interesting pistol. There was a Mauser P38 for sale on GB a few days ago which was attractive. Thought about bidding on it, but it's not in domain, there are some uncertainties, so I did not bid. Is this price too high for this gun? Here is the link: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=463134707

01-24-2015, 09:58 AM	#3
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Postwar Interarms P1 is a very well made gun. I had one in the past, fired 5000-6000 rounds "Winchester White Box" from it. The only thing that I dislike .. the frame is aluminum, and the bore had a liner installed. But I heard installing a liner being standard practice in P1. Sometimes, I am thinking expanding collection a little bit to cover a few Mauser made P38, Luger, Pocket/Vest Pocket, and revolver,,, but each domain has variations, some domains have long list of variations, it's hard to setup a collection in any domain without pouring much more $$ into this hobby. So had to control "impulsive desire". Anyway, byf P38, or svw P38 are interesting guns... absolute price of byf is not far away from current production guns...

01-24-2015, 08:27 PM	#11
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	After watching movie "Schindler's List", I felt it's very doubtful that slave workers dared to perform significant sabotage in a Czech factory... just keeping alive was a serious challenge in that environment, how many workers still had extra energy to perform sabotage... But saying their skill not being top, I have no doubt. Many of them probably were not machinists at all. Musicians, historians, teachers, doctors, etc, lots of professionals, except machinists. But everyone claimed being a machinist.

01-24-2015, 10:37 PM	#13
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Thanks for the link. Just read through it. The author wrote it in typical collector style... and unlike sheepherder, most collectors don't play that safety lever with a living round in chamber... so not surprisingly, he did not report this gun could go off that way And, no steel quality was mentioned on ac, byf, nor cyq -- that's absolutely not observable by just watching it. But he mentioned French "Grey Ghost" variation, I guess it's the P38 with steel grip panels? Very interesting stuff, looks like all collectors love the same thing.

01-24-2015, 10:50 PM	#14
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	And, the author said "4) The ejection port of the P.38 is very large, which means it is quite difficult for the pistol to 'stove pipe' a casing." That's in theory, but it is against my experience with Interarms P1. According to my statistics, it could fire about 450 rounds flawlessly between malfunctions. And, all malfunctions that I experienced was "stove pipe". Not sure why though. All ammo was same Winchester White Box. I would say, it's easy to clear "stove pipe" issue due to its big ejection port.

01-25-2015, 11:16 AM	#18
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	No problem. We'll learn from each other. I notice people collecting different guns, each has something that I have never heard of in the past. Internet is a great invention.