Unclean guns

CAP Black · 09-13-2014, 09:51 AM

An item of curiosity:
Why is it that most guns that I have purchased are dirty upon arrival. Even most that I have purchased from members of forums. Even ones from collectors who say they have had for many years. They are dry and dirty on both the inside and exterior. Not having had an oily rag applied for many a moon. And yet the common comment is that we are the caretakers of the items to preserve for future generations. I don't mean to take off the patina; for there is a huge difference between cleaning the grime off and scouring.
It is my opinion that the items look and feel so much differently when they are not grimy dirty.
FWIW.
Thanks
Jack

kzullick · 09-13-2014, 10:09 AM

Jack,
You are so right! I have purchased many guns even from collectors this same way. I guess I was taught differently, my Father always made me completely clean a gun after each use, even if it was only shot once. I have always kept his instruction as routine and passed it on to my sons. No dirty guns in my safe!

DavidJayUden · 09-13-2014, 10:28 AM

I swear, some guys value "original dirt".
dju

Edward Tinker · 09-13-2014, 11:14 AM

I think folks put it away and then when its time to sell, they sell it and don't clean ahead of time. I usually swab the bore and wipe it down before I am going to sell it.

That said, I have met many collectors whose thoughts of 'cleaning' it, is complete tear down and cleaning every nook and cranny, even had forum members tell me they take the sear safetys off, safety lever, take the toggle apart, etc.

Thats over the top in my eyes....

And what is dirty to you, may not be to Bob. Whats clean to me, might not be to Bob....

Patronen · 09-13-2014, 11:46 AM

I bought my First Issue from a gun shop that even though the exterior was clean the bore was dirty like the previous owner had fired it a bit.

sheepherder · 09-13-2014, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

...even had forum members tell me they take the sear safetys off, safety lever...

I posted about my sloppy/loose safety lever on my 1900AE, how I finally took it off and copper-brushed the built-up crud off and now it has tension and locks in each end of its travel...

I am now a firm believer in detail stripping & cleaning Lugers...

Sergio Natali · 09-13-2014, 01:29 PM

The "bad habit", to me, of leaving guns dirty is something that I've never understood. In other forums where I take part (1911 but especially Glock forums) there are members bragging to clean their guns only after 1000 shots or something like this.
I've always completely cleaned a gun after each use, even if I've only shot it once.
Cleaning it is part of the fun to me.

Sergio

Edward Tinker · 09-13-2014, 01:47 PM

In the army they insisted on total cleaniness. I was also taught in unit armorer school that more guns were worn out by cleaning than by shooting them

hayhugh · 09-13-2014, 04:03 PM

I shot competition (big bore/small bore) in the Army. We would practice Monday thru Thursday and have the big match (Camp Perry rules) on Friday. Never cleaned the guns until after the match.

Curly1 · 09-13-2014, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luger.parabellum

The "bad habit", to me, of leaving guns dirty is something that I've never understood. In other forums where I take part (1911 but especially Glock forums) there are members bragging to clean their guns only after 1000 shots or something like this.
I've always completely cleaned a gun after each use, even if I've only shot it once.
Cleaning it is part of the fun to me.

Sergio

I am with you on that one.

Clean and oil/grease after shooting and handling it while cleaning is therapeutic to me.

DavidJayUden · 09-13-2014, 05:53 PM

Ed:
Don't you suppose that guns damaged in cleaning translates to excess muzzle wear from steel rods and lost parts?

Curss · 09-13-2014, 06:23 PM

Many years ago, I forgot to clean my K98 after shooting corrosive surplus ammo through it. My poor rifle now has a corroded bore.

Needless to say, I clean my weapons everytime.

CAP Black · 09-13-2014, 06:34 PM

Most of you all missed the point. There is a huge difference between dirty from firing some rounds and down right grimy from years of crud buildup.
A dirty, filthy gun has a nasty feel to it as well as bad appearance and bad business. I say its a lack of responsibility.
Jack

Zorba · 09-13-2014, 09:34 PM

I just bought a NAA mini-revolver in .22 short. Previous owner hadn't fired it, but there was powder residue in the chambers and barrel. First thing I did when I got it home was clean it!

I always at least clean the bore and oil the gun. If its been shot "quite a bit" since its last detail strip, I'll do that too.

Like someone else said, cleaning is part of the fun.

Olle · 09-13-2014, 10:28 PM

On the flip side: I got a great deal on a gun once because "the barrel was bad". I brought it home and spent about an hour cleaning it out, and found that it was perfect. It was so damn dirty that it looked like it was worn out and pitted. So an unclean gun is not always a bad thing.

It's kinda funny though, you see dirty guns at the shows all the time. If you're trying to sell a car, you would more than likely wash it, get rid of all the hamburger wrappers and coke cans, vacuum it and so on. It just makes sense to make your merchandise pretty, it makes it easier to sell and you might very well get more money for it. Still, many people obviously don't want to spend a few minutes on cleaning a gun before taking it to the show.

Sergio Natali · 09-14-2014, 02:36 AM

David (DavidJayUden)

Of course on must never use steel rods, but only brass ones, with brass brushes that should never be introduced from the muzzle.

Karl · 09-14-2014, 11:29 AM

Dealers might be disinclined to clean their guns because it could reveal problems masked by the crud. I frequently see online descriptions like, "fair bore, should clean up better." The dirty gun has that "diamond in the rough" quality that can capture the imagination of the inexperienced buyer. On the other hand, there is nothing more delightful than excavating an old milsurp rifle from petrified cosmoline.
KFS

alanint · 09-14-2014, 02:26 PM

And many a crappy "boat varnished" stock turns out to have been nicely protected over the years once stripped and properly finished.

rhuff · 09-14-2014, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luger.parabellum

David

Of course on must never use steel rods, but only brass ones, with brass brushes that should never be introduced from the muzzle.

On some handguns like the Single Action Army and SA/DA revolvers, one must clean the barrel via the muzzle, unless you are satisfied with using a bore-snake only.

DavidJayUden · 09-14-2014, 05:43 PM

Many a military rifle barrel has been sent to an early grave because of cleaning from the muzzle with a steel rod. M-1's, M-1 Carbine, etc, etc, etc.
It is a shame to see good rifling throughout up to about an inch from the muzzle. Once that last inch is gone, she won't shoot worth a darn. Counterboring sometimes helps, sometimes not.
dju

09-13-2014, 09:51 AM	#1
CAP Black User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Fairmont, WV Right here in Mountaineer country and God's country Posts: 767 Thanks: 100 Thanked 174 Times in 96 Posts	Unclean guns An item of curiosity: Why is it that most guns that I have purchased are dirty upon arrival. Even most that I have purchased from members of forums. Even ones from collectors who say they have had for many years. They are dry and dirty on both the inside and exterior. Not having had an oily rag applied for many a moon. And yet the common comment is that we are the caretakers of the items to preserve for future generations. I don't mean to take off the patina; for there is a huge difference between cleaning the grime off and scouring. It is my opinion that the items look and feel so much differently when they are not grimy dirty. FWIW. Thanks Jack

09-13-2014, 11:46 AM	#5
Patronen User Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 312 Thanks: 335 Thanked 93 Times in 70 Posts	I bought my First Issue from a gun shop that even though the exterior was clean the bore was dirty like the previous owner had fired it a bit. __________________ Dave

09-13-2014, 01:29 PM	#7
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,087 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	The "bad habit", to me, of leaving guns dirty is something that I've never understood. In other forums where I take part (1911 but especially Glock forums) there are members bragging to clean their guns only after 1000 shots or something like this. I've always completely cleaned a gun after each use, even if I've only shot it once. Cleaning it is part of the fun to me. Sergio __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

09-13-2014, 06:23 PM	#12
Curss User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 307 Thanks: 304 Thanked 98 Times in 75 Posts	Many years ago, I forgot to clean my K98 after shooting corrosive surplus ammo through it. My poor rifle now has a corroded bore. Needless to say, I clean my weapons everytime. __________________ -Chris

09-14-2014, 02:36 AM	#16
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,087 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	David (DavidJayUden) Of course on must never use steel rods, but only brass ones, with brass brushes that should never be introduced from the muzzle. __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

09-13-2014, 10:09 AM	#2
kzullick Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: East Berwick, Pennsylvania Posts: 239 Thanks: 683 Thanked 104 Times in 85 Posts	Jack, You are so right! I have purchased many guns even from collectors this same way. I guess I was taught differently, my Father always made me completely clean a gun after each use, even if it was only shot once. I have always kept his instruction as routine and passed it on to my sons. No dirty guns in my safe!

09-13-2014, 10:28 AM	#3
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	I swear, some guys value "original dirt". dju

09-13-2014, 11:14 AM	#4
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	I think folks put it away and then when its time to sell, they sell it and don't clean ahead of time. I usually swab the bore and wipe it down before I am going to sell it. That said, I have met many collectors whose thoughts of 'cleaning' it, is complete tear down and cleaning every nook and cranny, even had forum members tell me they take the sear safetys off, safety lever, take the toggle apart, etc. Thats over the top in my eyes.... And what is dirty to you, may not be to Bob. Whats clean to me, might not be to Bob....

09-13-2014, 01:47 PM	#8
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	In the army they insisted on total cleaniness. I was also taught in unit armorer school that more guns were worn out by cleaning than by shooting them

09-13-2014, 04:03 PM	#9
hayhugh User Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Florida/Penna Posts: 898 Thanks: 880 Thanked 514 Times in 276 Posts	I shot competition (big bore/small bore) in the Army. We would practice Monday thru Thursday and have the big match (Camp Perry rules) on Friday. Never cleaned the guns until after the match.

09-13-2014, 05:53 PM	#11
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Ed: Don't you suppose that guns damaged in cleaning translates to excess muzzle wear from steel rods and lost parts?

09-13-2014, 06:34 PM	#13
CAP Black User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Fairmont, WV Right here in Mountaineer country and God's country Posts: 767 Thanks: 100 Thanked 174 Times in 96 Posts	Most of you all missed the point. There is a huge difference between dirty from firing some rounds and down right grimy from years of crud buildup. A dirty, filthy gun has a nasty feel to it as well as bad appearance and bad business. I say its a lack of responsibility. Jack

09-13-2014, 09:34 PM	#14
Zorba User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Merritt Island, Fl Posts: 952 Thanks: 777 Thanked 528 Times in 290 Posts	I just bought a NAA mini-revolver in .22 short. Previous owner hadn't fired it, but there was powder residue in the chambers and barrel. First thing I did when I got it home was clean it! I always at least clean the bore and oil the gun. If its been shot "quite a bit" since its last detail strip, I'll do that too. Like someone else said, cleaning is part of the fun.

09-13-2014, 10:28 PM	#15
Olle User Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 1,149 Thanks: 159 Thanked 664 Times in 318 Posts	On the flip side: I got a great deal on a gun once because "the barrel was bad". I brought it home and spent about an hour cleaning it out, and found that it was perfect. It was so damn dirty that it looked like it was worn out and pitted. So an unclean gun is not always a bad thing. It's kinda funny though, you see dirty guns at the shows all the time. If you're trying to sell a car, you would more than likely wash it, get rid of all the hamburger wrappers and coke cans, vacuum it and so on. It just makes sense to make your merchandise pretty, it makes it easier to sell and you might very well get more money for it. Still, many people obviously don't want to spend a few minutes on cleaning a gun before taking it to the show.

09-14-2014, 11:29 AM	#17
Karl Lifer - Twice Over Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Savannah Posts: 530 Thanks: 0 Thanked 280 Times in 123 Posts	Dealers might be disinclined to clean their guns because it could reveal problems masked by the crud. I frequently see online descriptions like, "fair bore, should clean up better." The dirty gun has that "diamond in the rough" quality that can capture the imagination of the inexperienced buyer. On the other hand, there is nothing more delightful than excavating an old milsurp rifle from petrified cosmoline. KFS

09-14-2014, 02:26 PM	#18
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	And many a crappy "boat varnished" stock turns out to have been nicely protected over the years once stripped and properly finished.

09-14-2014, 05:43 PM	#20
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Many a military rifle barrel has been sent to an early grave because of cleaning from the muzzle with a steel rod. M-1's, M-1 Carbine, etc, etc, etc. It is a shame to see good rifling throughout up to about an inch from the muzzle. Once that last inch is gone, she won't shoot worth a darn. Counterboring sometimes helps, sometimes not. dju