Price of a mismatched shooter Artillery Luger with poor bore

TheRomanhistorian · 09-01-2014, 08:28 PM

Hello all,

I was just curious what the going rate might be for an Artillery Luger was. As fun as it would be to own an Artillery Luger they seem to come at a premium these days. I was just curious what an appropriate rate might be since every Luger these days (at local shops) seems a bit pricey and even mismatches in batttered condition seem to go for $1000-$1500 in local shops.

I saw one mismatched Artillery Luger with a poor bore on Simpsons (a 1917 DWM) but it was $1400 which seemed a bit high to me but I also don't know what the going rate is for an artillery which was mismatched and in good shape.

It's not an immediate 'need' or even 'want' but I rather fancy one as a shooter from time to time.

Best,

Michael

Edward Tinker · 09-01-2014, 08:34 PM

Michael, I always say $1000 easy, and probably $1200

Everything to me depends on originality, condition, etc. I.e. Just mismatched or pitted or just long barrel.. Caliber? Original caliber would be 9mm, but I had a 4 inch that had been relined...

TheRomanhistorian · 09-01-2014, 08:57 PM

Hi Ed,

Thanks for your reply!

It's in 9mm and the upper, toggle, and barrel are all matched but it's the lower and the magazine which are not. So $1400 perhaps isn't too much given it's Simpson's and there's a premium there.

I suppose it's always worth posting a WTB here on the forum, first, when I get to that stage.

Best,

Michael

sheepherder · 09-01-2014, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRomanhistorian

It's in 9mm and the upper, toggle, and barrel are all matched but it's the lower and the magazine which are not. So $1400 perhaps isn't too much given it's Simpson's and there's a premium there.

Can you post the URL??? Opinions differ on what is acceptable 'condition'. And as to bore, it's generally thought that even a sewer pipe Luger can shoot acceptably, and the extra ~3" over a P-08 should make it more so.

BTW: Simpsons will entertain offers. The salesperson will take it out of the vault and describe it to you. Online pics tend to emphasize flaws, blemishes, and scratches. That $1400 shooter may be quite attractive in the flesh.

TheRomanhistorian · 09-01-2014, 10:16 PM

Hello sheepherder,

I didn't know they'd entertain offers (they have this Webley Mk I .455 Self Loading pistol I want but it's a bit pricey for a mismatch, even with its rarity). I'm into some odd pistols these days (picked up a 1915 Model 1892 French revolver recently).

Here's the Simpson's Luger (if this is not appropriate I will be more than happy to remove the link).

http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_in...ducts_id=34629

Michael

DavidJayUden · 09-01-2014, 10:20 PM

I have had an Artillery barrel relined, so a poor bore would not scare me away from a shooter. Try to get in low, because it all adds up when you are building; bluing, relining the barrel, repop. grips, repop holster/rig,spring kit, magazines, etc, etc, etc.
dju

sheepherder · 09-01-2014, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRomanhistorian

I didn't know they'd entertain offers...

They don't always accept them; but they are open to offers.

Best to call and discuss it in real-time.

Quote:

Here's the Simpson's Luger -

http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_in...ducts_id=34629

"The rear sight leaf has been repaired". I blew up both side & top views; I don't see anything obvious that has been 'repaired', but that would be a bone of contention to me. I have had several LP-08 rear sights for the four 'artillery' cannon assemblies I have worked on, and am contemplating 'repairing' a stripped sight leaf and another with a chipped elevator finger. But it won't be easy, or quick, or cheap.

I think if, like me, you were looking for a quick pickup of a shooter artillery Luger, this may well be a buy that would satisfy you. Or if you're not in a hurry, keep an eye out on GB or Legacy or another at Simpsons. In better shape.

Sergio Natali · 09-02-2014, 03:22 AM

Michael,

All in all I don't think the price is that high, obviously it depends also on how much ruined is the bore.
Just to give you a rough comparison the Artilley Luger in the picture below is for sale here in Italy at the price of about USD 4500.00 it's in very good condition BUT it was rechambered 9x21 IMI which means that in the States probably wouldn't have any value.

Sergio

TheRomanhistorian · 09-02-2014, 10:05 AM

Sergio,

Thank you for your thoughts. I may call and ask them how 'poor' this poor bore is though I've had Mauser Broomhandles with poor bores and they still shot fairly well.

Sheepherder,

Yes, I saw that as well and thought perhaps that could also be something I asked about (but I couldn't really see where the repair was from their photos).

DavidJayUden,

Valid points as well. There all those little accoutrements we want to buy as well as the stuff we really need to make the gun function reliably.

Thanks everyone!

DavidJayUden · 09-02-2014, 10:56 AM

Good point regarding the bore. We on this forum frequently come across Lugers with a very questionable looking bores, but range testing shows them to shoot just fine.
dju

sheepherder · 09-02-2014, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luger.parabellum

Just to give you a rough comparison the Artilley Luger in the picture below is for sale here in Italy at the price of about USD 4500.00 it's in very good condition BUT it was rechambered 9x21 IMI which means that in the States probably wouldn't have any value.

Sergio - If I were offered that particular artillery Luger, the 9x21 cartridge would not bother me. I might use that as leverage to get a lower price, but as long as it shoots *something*, I don't really care what.

The fine tune sights would bother me more. I don't like FT sights, and I have a set/barrel.

That Luger has an unmodified sear, which I have only seen pics of once or twice (never in person). Again, not an issue to me, but possibly might be used to lever price.

I love the brown holster, especially the ball & socket fastener. The cleaning rod is cool, too. Can't see the board (it's just barely visible), so I couldn't make a final determination, but the price you quote would definitely have me thinking...

TheRomanhistorian · 09-03-2014, 07:28 PM

Thank you all for the advice...I have admit that I was pointed to a Vickers Luger at Checkpoint Charlie's and, well...I guess the Artillery Luger will remain a dream for now...

Angus Magnus · 10-01-2014, 09:58 AM

Well... I am about to take receipt of a nice mismatch artillery for $1395... I feel like I probably overpaid by $200 or so.

The upper and magazine are from a 1914 Erfurt, lower is all matching but not sure yet if from Erfurt or DWM.

Which brings up another question: I have seen in forums where people are trying to match up their magazines, but is there anywhere to match up complete halves?

Angus Magnus · 10-06-2014, 10:42 PM

Here is the new addition to the family!

What is the meaning of the stylized eagle with letters below "HZaJtB" that appears in the third photo?

The upper half is in excellent shape, the bore is as well, and even has the matching magazine!

The lower half is a DWM in 85-90%

It sure looks like it was reassembled accidentally...

Is there any listing of people looking for the other half of their gun?

TheRomanhistorian · 10-07-2014, 01:21 AM

Angus, my friend, that is a beautiful piece of history right there.

Edward Tinker · 10-07-2014, 10:11 AM

HZA is a rework facility

no, no one that I know that collects that information - you can be the first, hey, it has to start somewhere....

I had a 1940 / 42 luger that was very nice, upper matched / lower matched, just not each other

nukem556 · 10-07-2014, 11:59 AM

But why would an Arty be refinished in a Nazi-era depot?

Curss · 10-07-2014, 02:00 PM

That is a beautiful arty. And an Erfurt upper nonetheless...

Angus Magnus · 10-07-2014, 02:07 PM

Been hunting an arty in decent shape and within my price range. Honestly this one turned out even nicer in person than the description or photos described. I am very happy with it.

Now to find a stock and try it out!

Angus Magnus · 10-08-2014, 09:28 AM

where can I read more info on the HZA rework depot markings?

09-01-2014, 08:28 PM	#1
TheRomanhistorian User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 301 Thanks: 170 Thanked 88 Times in 64 Posts	Price of a mismatched shooter Artillery Luger with poor bore Hello all, I was just curious what the going rate might be for an Artillery Luger was. As fun as it would be to own an Artillery Luger they seem to come at a premium these days. I was just curious what an appropriate rate might be since every Luger these days (at local shops) seems a bit pricey and even mismatches in batttered condition seem to go for $1000-$1500 in local shops. I saw one mismatched Artillery Luger with a poor bore on Simpsons (a 1917 DWM) but it was $1400 which seemed a bit high to me but I also don't know what the going rate is for an artillery which was mismatched and in good shape. It's not an immediate 'need' or even 'want' but I rather fancy one as a shooter from time to time. Best, Michael __________________ Michael Nos morituri te salutant - Supposed saying of the gladiators to the emperor ('We, who are about to die, salute you.') 'We are the lantern bearers, my friend; for us to keep something burning, to carry what light we can forward into the darkness and the wind' - From Rosemary Sutcliff's The Lantern Bearers

09-01-2014, 08:57 PM	#3
TheRomanhistorian User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 301 Thanks: 170 Thanked 88 Times in 64 Posts	Hi Ed, Thanks for your reply! It's in 9mm and the upper, toggle, and barrel are all matched but it's the lower and the magazine which are not. So $1400 perhaps isn't too much given it's Simpson's and there's a premium there. I suppose it's always worth posting a WTB here on the forum, first, when I get to that stage. Best, Michael __________________ Michael Nos morituri te salutant - Supposed saying of the gladiators to the emperor ('We, who are about to die, salute you.') 'We are the lantern bearers, my friend; for us to keep something burning, to carry what light we can forward into the darkness and the wind' - From Rosemary Sutcliff's The Lantern Bearers

09-01-2014, 10:16 PM	#5
TheRomanhistorian User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 301 Thanks: 170 Thanked 88 Times in 64 Posts	Hello sheepherder, I didn't know they'd entertain offers (they have this Webley Mk I .455 Self Loading pistol I want but it's a bit pricey for a mismatch, even with its rarity). I'm into some odd pistols these days (picked up a 1915 Model 1892 French revolver recently). Here's the Simpson's Luger (if this is not appropriate I will be more than happy to remove the link). http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_in...ducts_id=34629 Michael __________________ Michael Nos morituri te salutant - Supposed saying of the gladiators to the emperor ('We, who are about to die, salute you.') 'We are the lantern bearers, my friend; for us to keep something burning, to carry what light we can forward into the darkness and the wind' - From Rosemary Sutcliff's The Lantern Bearers

09-02-2014, 03:22 AM	#8
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,087 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	Michael, All in all I don't think the price is that high, obviously it depends also on how much ruined is the bore. Just to give you a rough comparison the Artilley Luger in the picture below is for sale here in Italy at the price of about USD 4500.00 it's in very good condition BUT it was rechambered 9x21 IMI which means that in the States probably wouldn't have any value. Sergio Attached Thumbnails __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

09-02-2014, 10:05 AM	#9
TheRomanhistorian User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 301 Thanks: 170 Thanked 88 Times in 64 Posts	Sergio, Thank you for your thoughts. I may call and ask them how 'poor' this poor bore is though I've had Mauser Broomhandles with poor bores and they still shot fairly well. Sheepherder, Yes, I saw that as well and thought perhaps that could also be something I asked about (but I couldn't really see where the repair was from their photos). DavidJayUden, Valid points as well. There all those little accoutrements we want to buy as well as the stuff we really need to make the gun function reliably. Thanks everyone! __________________ Michael Nos morituri te salutant - Supposed saying of the gladiators to the emperor ('We, who are about to die, salute you.') 'We are the lantern bearers, my friend; for us to keep something burning, to carry what light we can forward into the darkness and the wind' - From Rosemary Sutcliff's The Lantern Bearers

09-01-2014, 08:34 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,965 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,594 Times in 2,116 Posts	Michael, I always say $1000 easy, and probably $1200 Everything to me depends on originality, condition, etc. I.e. Just mismatched or pitted or just long barrel.. Caliber? Original caliber would be 9mm, but I had a 4 inch that had been relined...

09-01-2014, 10:20 PM	#6
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	I have had an Artillery barrel relined, so a poor bore would not scare me away from a shooter. Try to get in low, because it all adds up when you are building; bluing, relining the barrel, repop. grips, repop holster/rig,spring kit, magazines, etc, etc, etc. dju

09-02-2014, 10:56 AM	#10
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Good point regarding the bore. We on this forum frequently come across Lugers with a very questionable looking bores, but range testing shows them to shoot just fine. dju

09-03-2014, 07:28 PM	#12
TheRomanhistorian User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 301 Thanks: 170 Thanked 88 Times in 64 Posts	Thank you all for the advice...I have admit that I was pointed to a Vickers Luger at Checkpoint Charlie's and, well...I guess the Artillery Luger will remain a dream for now... __________________ Michael Nos morituri te salutant - Supposed saying of the gladiators to the emperor ('We, who are about to die, salute you.') 'We are the lantern bearers, my friend; for us to keep something burning, to carry what light we can forward into the darkness and the wind' - From Rosemary Sutcliff's The Lantern Bearers

10-01-2014, 09:58 AM	#13
Angus Magnus User Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Miami Posts: 133 Thanks: 8 Thanked 22 Times in 16 Posts	Well... I am about to take receipt of a nice mismatch artillery for $1395... I feel like I probably overpaid by $200 or so. The upper and magazine are from a 1914 Erfurt, lower is all matching but not sure yet if from Erfurt or DWM. Which brings up another question: I have seen in forums where people are trying to match up their magazines, but is there anywhere to match up complete halves?

10-06-2014, 10:42 PM	#14
Angus Magnus User Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Miami Posts: 133 Thanks: 8 Thanked 22 Times in 16 Posts	Here is the new addition to the family! What is the meaning of the stylized eagle with letters below "HZaJtB" that appears in the third photo? The upper half is in excellent shape, the bore is as well, and even has the matching magazine! The lower half is a DWM in 85-90% It sure looks like it was reassembled accidentally... Is there any listing of people looking for the other half of their gun?

10-07-2014, 01:21 AM	#15
TheRomanhistorian User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 301 Thanks: 170 Thanked 88 Times in 64 Posts	Angus, my friend, that is a beautiful piece of history right there. __________________ Michael Nos morituri te salutant - Supposed saying of the gladiators to the emperor ('We, who are about to die, salute you.') 'We are the lantern bearers, my friend; for us to keep something burning, to carry what light we can forward into the darkness and the wind' - From Rosemary Sutcliff's The Lantern Bearers

10-07-2014, 10:11 AM	#16
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,965 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,594 Times in 2,116 Posts	HZA is a rework facility no, no one that I know that collects that information - you can be the first, hey, it has to start somewhere.... I had a 1940 / 42 luger that was very nice, upper matched / lower matched, just not each other __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

10-07-2014, 11:59 AM	#17
nukem556 User Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Irmo, SC Posts: 625 Thanks: 35 Thanked 168 Times in 107 Posts	But why would an Arty be refinished in a Nazi-era depot?

10-07-2014, 02:00 PM	#18
Curss User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 307 Thanks: 304 Thanked 98 Times in 75 Posts	That is a beautiful arty. And an Erfurt upper nonetheless... __________________ -Chris

10-07-2014, 02:07 PM	#19
Angus Magnus User Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Miami Posts: 133 Thanks: 8 Thanked 22 Times in 16 Posts	Been hunting an arty in decent shape and within my price range. Honestly this one turned out even nicer in person than the description or photos described. I am very happy with it. Now to find a stock and try it out!

10-08-2014, 09:28 AM	#20
Angus Magnus User Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Miami Posts: 133 Thanks: 8 Thanked 22 Times in 16 Posts	where can I read more info on the HZA rework depot markings?