1912 Erfurt

foxdoublegunner · 06-07-2014, 02:27 PM

Gentlemen,
I would like your opinions on another Erfurt that I have spotted which has unit markings, matching numbers/proofs and I am told still sports its original finish which looks to have just honest wear. The serial numbers are even in size but not lined up. While I have seen other samples which are not completely lined up this sample appears a bit more unaligned particularly on the barrel. I am told by the seller that it has been on the market for some time. It is offered with one non matching period wood base magazine for a price in the mid teens.

Thank you,
Ricardo

Norme · 06-07-2014, 03:53 PM

Hi Ricardo, The gun itself looks original, but I'm not sure about the barrel. I would ask the seller for clear photos of the barrel serial number and the two inspection marks on the left of the barrel.
Regards, Norm
P.S. If the barrel looks OK, then a price in the mid-teens seems fair.

foxdoublegunner · 06-07-2014, 04:04 PM

Thank you, Norme. I appreciate your keeping me out of trouble!

Ricardo

John Sabato · 06-09-2014, 01:21 PM

Just a note. This gun has an unrelieved sear bar, and as such would not allow you to open the toggle if the safety is ON. This is not a problem, just a heads up so you don't think something is wrong with it if you buy it.

There were military orders to modify all such Luger sears, but somehow, this one avoided the armory refurbishing and modification... probably got captured. It is hard to see in your current photographs, but it looks like this gun was manufactured without a holdopen device, and it was added later. Can I see a good close up of the right side of the gun from the trigger guard back to the toggle knob? I might be able to tell better.

alanint · 06-09-2014, 02:15 PM

Hi John,

The gun has the holdopen pin added and properly proofed. Odd that the seller does not provide precisely the image that is of most concern, which is a straight-on photo of the barrel serial numbers.

John Sabato · 06-09-2014, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanint

Hi John,

The gun has the holdopen pin added and properly proofed. Odd that the seller does not provide precisely the image that is of most concern, which is a straight-on photo of the barrel serial numbers.

Agreed Doug. But perhaps just an oversight, or the owner didn't realize that the serial number is also in this location.

The photos of the barrel/receiver seem to imply that the finish is identical, so maybe it is the original barrel.

foxdoublegunner · 06-09-2014, 07:10 PM

Gentlemen,
Thank you for your comments. I had the owner pull the gun before I placed a bid as per previous suggestions and he told me that the proper halo on the serial number was present. Several of the other lugers which he is offering for sale are also lacking the front picture that you refer to. He has been straightforward answering all of my questions. He has a three day non-firing return policy in case something still doesn't look proper upon receipt. He accepted my bid of $1,500 which is probably on the order of a fair deal although not a great deal for an original unit marked Imperial luger. The 111th Regiment served in many of the major campaigns to include Belleau Wood, which makes it of particular interest to me as a retired Marine.

Ricardo

Geo99 · 06-11-2014, 03:08 AM

Ricardo,

What makes you say $1500 is not a great deal? I have not seen the top and I have not seen the under barrel SN, but assuming ALL the parts are Erfurt proofed & numbered correctly (barrel, toggle, screws, internal parts, grips, etc), that is a 1800-1900 gun - it is an early Erfurt in very good condition. I would buy it for 1500 without batting an eye.

- Geo

Geo99 · 06-11-2014, 03:10 AM

Ricardo,

P.S. IMHO all the other guns you asked about were horrible, you bought the right one.
Congrats - I take it this is your first?

foxdoublegunner · 06-11-2014, 05:59 AM

Geo,
Thank you for the good news about worth of the pistol. Yes, this is my first Luger and I need to be profuse in my thanks to all of you for your generous guidance. You have kept me from making some expensive decisions and steered me towards a pistol that is in line with my desires.
It had been on the market for a bit of time, perhaps because a lot of collectors apparently are more interested in the WW 2 vintage examples. Lugers are definitely a "minefield" which is one of the reasons why I been hesitant to purchase an example for my collection aside from cost.
I have attached a picture of the top for you to look at.

Regards,
Ricardo

siegersallee · 06-18-2014, 09:36 AM

Quote:

He accepted my bid of $1,500 which is probably on the order of a fair deal although not a great deal for an original unit marked Imperial luger.

Are you kidding? That is a great deal! To find a 1912 Erfurt in that condition, all matching, AND unit marked to a recognizable unit is what I dream of.

If you tire of it, please let me know. I am interested in buying it.

Now that you have landed this piece, if the seller has other lugers, would you disclose his name and contact info?

many thanks,
Richard

Ron Wood · 06-18-2014, 12:30 PM

Ricardo,
You got a screaming good deal. That is a superior early Erfurt...in addition to excellent original finish and unit marking it even still has the proper acceptance marked grip screws, which is seldom encountered. As your first Luger I like to say that you hit it out of the park on your first time at bat. Congratulations.

foxdoublegunner · 06-19-2014, 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by siegersallee

Are you kidding? That is a great deal! To find a 1912 Erfurt in that condition, all matching, AND unit marked to a recognizable unit is what I dream of.

If you tire of it, please let me know. I am interested in buying it.

Now that you have landed this piece, if the seller has other lugers, would you disclose his name and contact info?

many thanks,
Richard

Richard,
He has several unit marked Imperial Lugers still for sale. Here is a link for you to take a look at them. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=422881073
He is a good guy to deal with.

Regards,
Ricardo

foxdoublegunner · 06-19-2014, 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

Ricardo,
You got a screaming good deal. That is a superior early Erfurt...in addition to excellent original finish and unit marking it even still has the proper acceptance marked grip screws, which is seldom encountered. As your first Luger I like to say that you hit it out of the park on your first time at bat. Congratulations.

Ron,
I just returned from my FFL. The pistol arrived this afternoon so I wanted to inspect it before submitting the DROS paperwork. It looks even better in person. The straw is in excellent shape with enough wear to give one confidence that it has not been re-done as is the overall rust blue of the pistol. The magazine is an excellent condition, dual proofed Erfurt (non-matching serial number as previously disclosed). I suspect that this was captured early in the war or else was the sidearm of some fastidious officer. I would really like to shoot it but I may have to relegate this one to a display case. It is almost too nice. You guys were spot on with your advice to wait, read, ask questions and search.

Regards,
Ricardo

Lyn Islaub · 06-20-2014, 01:09 AM

I've dealt with this seller before and he seems to be honest and straightforward. He collected unit marked Lugers for a number of years and is selling them to finance a fascination with Class 3 weapons. I've spoken to him on the phone on a couple of occasions and he is more than willing to supply additional photos of any of his auctions if asked to do so and doesn't hesitate to honor the 3 day return policy.
Lyn

06-09-2014, 01:21 PM	#4
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,309 Times in 1,098 Posts	Just a note. This gun has an unrelieved sear bar, and as such would not allow you to open the toggle if the safety is ON. This is not a problem, just a heads up so you don't think something is wrong with it if you buy it. There were military orders to modify all such Luger sears, but somehow, this one avoided the armory refurbishing and modification... probably got captured. It is hard to see in your current photographs, but it looks like this gun was manufactured without a holdopen device, and it was added later. Can I see a good close up of the right side of the gun from the trigger guard back to the toggle knob? I might be able to tell better. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

06-09-2014, 07:10 PM	#7
foxdoublegunner User Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: California and Nevada Posts: 98 Thanks: 63 Thanked 67 Times in 29 Posts	1912 erfurt Gentlemen, Thank you for your comments. I had the owner pull the gun before I placed a bid as per previous suggestions and he told me that the proper halo on the serial number was present. Several of the other lugers which he is offering for sale are also lacking the front picture that you refer to. He has been straightforward answering all of my questions. He has a three day non-firing return policy in case something still doesn't look proper upon receipt. He accepted my bid of $1,500 which is probably on the order of a fair deal although not a great deal for an original unit marked Imperial luger. The 111th Regiment served in many of the major campaigns to include Belleau Wood, which makes it of particular interest to me as a retired Marine. Ricardo

06-11-2014, 03:08 AM	#8
Geo99 User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Whidbey Island WA Posts: 400 Thanks: 102 Thanked 127 Times in 75 Posts	Ricardo, What makes you say $1500 is not a great deal? I have not seen the top and I have not seen the under barrel SN, but assuming ALL the parts are Erfurt proofed & numbered correctly (barrel, toggle, screws, internal parts, grips, etc), that is a 1800-1900 gun - it is an early Erfurt in very good condition. I would buy it for 1500 without batting an eye. - Geo __________________ "Diplomacy is the art of saying nice doggie, until you can find a rock." - Will Rogers

06-11-2014, 03:10 AM	#9
Geo99 User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Whidbey Island WA Posts: 400 Thanks: 102 Thanked 127 Times in 75 Posts	Ricardo, P.S. IMHO all the other guns you asked about were horrible, you bought the right one. Congrats - I take it this is your first? __________________ "Diplomacy is the art of saying nice doggie, until you can find a rock." - Will Rogers

06-18-2014, 12:30 PM	#12
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,051 Thanks: 1,119 Thanked 5,286 Times in 1,728 Posts	Ricardo, You got a screaming good deal. That is a superior early Erfurt...in addition to excellent original finish and unit marking it even still has the proper acceptance marked grip screws, which is seldom encountered. As your first Luger I like to say that you hit it out of the park on your first time at bat. Congratulations. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

06-07-2014, 03:53 PM	#2
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,607 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Ricardo, The gun itself looks original, but I'm not sure about the barrel. I would ask the seller for clear photos of the barrel serial number and the two inspection marks on the left of the barrel. Regards, Norm P.S. If the barrel looks OK, then a price in the mid-teens seems fair.

06-07-2014, 04:04 PM	#3
foxdoublegunner User Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: California and Nevada Posts: 98 Thanks: 63 Thanked 67 Times in 29 Posts	Thank you, Norme. I appreciate your keeping me out of trouble! Ricardo

06-09-2014, 02:15 PM	#5
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	Hi John, The gun has the holdopen pin added and properly proofed. Odd that the seller does not provide precisely the image that is of most concern, which is a straight-on photo of the barrel serial numbers.

06-20-2014, 01:09 AM	#15
Lyn Islaub Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 435 Thanks: 3 Thanked 152 Times in 72 Posts	I've dealt with this seller before and he seems to be honest and straightforward. He collected unit marked Lugers for a number of years and is selling them to finance a fascination with Class 3 weapons. I've spoken to him on the phone on a couple of occasions and he is more than willing to supply additional photos of any of his auctions if asked to do so and doesn't hesitate to honor the 3 day return policy. Lyn