Opinions requested

foxdoublegunner · 06-01-2014, 02:53 PM

Gentlemen,
I want to begin by thanking all of you for your input on a 1914 Erfurt that I was looking at purchasing several weeks ago. Following your comments, I decided to pass on the pistol and now would like to hear your opinions on a couple of P08's that are advertised on Simpsons and another which I have seen at a local shop. Below is the write up on the pistols from Simpsons:
ERFURT 1913 MILITARY
9mm Luger; 85% blue, 60% straw, fair bore, good grips, 4'' barrel, Original blue finish, strawed small parts and matching number checkered walnut grips. Matching except the magazine which is DWM manufacture numbered 7586/+. The safety sear is not numbered or proofed. Stamped on top of the toggle crown/ERFURT and on top of the chamber with the date 1913. Standard Imperial proofs and military acceptance stamped. A matching number hold open is installed. The metal finish shows edge and high point holstering wear, with some thinning on the barrel and light surface spotting overall. The grips show light wear and some handling with well defined checkering. Mechanically fine, the bore shows wear and darkness throughout.
C&R/FFL, s/n 3xxa, Catalog Number E-48 Z16887

ERFURT 1916 MILITARY
9mm Luger; 75% blue, 80% straw, very good bore, good grips, 4'' barrel, Original blue finish, strawed small parts and matching number checkered walnut grips. All matching including the magazine with is marked with the + indicating the extra magazine issued with the gun and an Erfurt proof. Most of the small parts have the small Erfurt proof as well, including the grips. The top of the toggle is stamped with the large crown over Erfurt logo and on top of the chamber with the date 1916. The standard Imperial proofs and military acceptance mark appear on the right side of the receiver, with other military acceptance marks on the right side of the barrel and left side of the breechbolt. The metal finish shows edge wear, some areas of thinning and some high point holstering wear. The pistol has light surface spotting overall and a few small areas of minor pitting. The grips show some handing and compression to some of the checkering, which remains sharp. Mechanically fine, the bore is clean and sharp, showing a few spots of light surface rust. An original all matching example with a nice bore for shooting at nearly a shooter grade price. C&R/FFL, s/n 3xx, Catalog Number E-58 Z20581

The final pistol is an Erfurt 1916/1920 police re-work in good mechanical and cosmetic condition offered in the same price range as the two above and is included with a non matching DWM magazine. All parts visible to the eye had matching serial numbers. To my eye it does not look to have been refinished but if it was, I believe that it was a period refinish. I will get pictures on Tuesday.

Please forgive me if I am breaching any protocol by asking for opinions about pistols offered for sale at a commercial site and if so, please delete my post. I am just trying to get a better feel for the market and make an informed decision.

Thank you in advance,
Foxdoublegunner

sheepherder · 06-01-2014, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foxdoublegunner

Please forgive me if I am breaching any protocol by asking for opinions about pistols offered for sale at a commercial site...

No breach. Brad Simpson is a member here. But you didn't post the prices, so the question must be...moot...

Edward Tinker · 06-01-2014, 04:25 PM

rework does not always mean reblue...

foxdoublegunner · 06-01-2014, 04:50 PM

Ed,
generally speaking, with all other things being equal (condition & matching numbers), does a double date police rework lower the collector desirability or does that just depend upon the collectors field of interest.

Edward Tinker · 06-01-2014, 04:53 PM

everything depends on the collector - but I would say that a WW1 that has not been police used is worth more

a 'double date' (the 1920 is not a date) is usually worth slightly less to many folks
but condition is almost always the main issue...

foxdoublegunner · 06-01-2014, 05:11 PM

Ed,
Thank you. I suspected as such. The pistol in question is a 1916/1920 marked example. Looks to be in good condition and not to have seen much military or police service. Considering how much wear police firearms generally get, I thought that it looked quite good but I didn't want to ask to have it broken down unless I was serious about narrowing the field of candidates.
Do you have any opinion about the two others offered on the commercial site?

Thank you,
Foxdoublegunner

wlyon · 06-01-2014, 07:40 PM

My opinion is they are both overpriced for marginal lugers. The 1913 has a poor barrel and an unmarked part. The 1916 has a poor finish . Unless you can get these for less I would suggest you look further. Only one opinion. Bill

foxdoublegunner · 06-01-2014, 08:09 PM

Bill,
Thank you. I am not seeing many for sale around here and those that are coming up are quite high in price so I am trying to get a feel for what is reasonable to expect for a particular price point. I was leaning more towards the 1916 due to the condition of the bore and matching magazine.

Edward Tinker · 06-01-2014, 09:39 PM

lugers are much mre common than you think - patience is the key- lugers come up here on the forum fairly frequently - there are lots on dealer sites and lots on gunbroker

decide what you want by era - by military or commercial - decide if a certain type interests you - if in 30 luger (7.65mm) or 9mm luger

wlyon · 06-01-2014, 11:27 PM

Agree with Ed. Decide what you really want and what you want it for. Then spend lots of time looking. There are many online sites offering lugers. Use this Forum to help you. Lugers are a complex collecting item. You have some of the leading experts here and on Jan's forum. Use them! The biggest mistake you can make is rushing in to buy. We have all been there but mistakes can be costly. Welcome to the Forum and Happy collecting. Bill

06-01-2014, 02:53 PM	#1
foxdoublegunner User Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: California and Nevada Posts: 98 Thanks: 63 Thanked 67 Times in 29 Posts	Opinions requested Gentlemen, I want to begin by thanking all of you for your input on a 1914 Erfurt that I was looking at purchasing several weeks ago. Following your comments, I decided to pass on the pistol and now would like to hear your opinions on a couple of P08's that are advertised on Simpsons and another which I have seen at a local shop. Below is the write up on the pistols from Simpsons: ERFURT 1913 MILITARY 9mm Luger; 85% blue, 60% straw, fair bore, good grips, 4'' barrel, Original blue finish, strawed small parts and matching number checkered walnut grips. Matching except the magazine which is DWM manufacture numbered 7586/+. The safety sear is not numbered or proofed. Stamped on top of the toggle crown/ERFURT and on top of the chamber with the date 1913. Standard Imperial proofs and military acceptance stamped. A matching number hold open is installed. The metal finish shows edge and high point holstering wear, with some thinning on the barrel and light surface spotting overall. The grips show light wear and some handling with well defined checkering. Mechanically fine, the bore shows wear and darkness throughout. C&R/FFL, s/n 3xxa, Catalog Number E-48 Z16887 ERFURT 1916 MILITARY 9mm Luger; 75% blue, 80% straw, very good bore, good grips, 4'' barrel, Original blue finish, strawed small parts and matching number checkered walnut grips. All matching including the magazine with is marked with the + indicating the extra magazine issued with the gun and an Erfurt proof. Most of the small parts have the small Erfurt proof as well, including the grips. The top of the toggle is stamped with the large crown over Erfurt logo and on top of the chamber with the date 1916. The standard Imperial proofs and military acceptance mark appear on the right side of the receiver, with other military acceptance marks on the right side of the barrel and left side of the breechbolt. The metal finish shows edge wear, some areas of thinning and some high point holstering wear. The pistol has light surface spotting overall and a few small areas of minor pitting. The grips show some handing and compression to some of the checkering, which remains sharp. Mechanically fine, the bore is clean and sharp, showing a few spots of light surface rust. An original all matching example with a nice bore for shooting at nearly a shooter grade price. C&R/FFL, s/n 3xx, Catalog Number E-58 Z20581 The final pistol is an Erfurt 1916/1920 police re-work in good mechanical and cosmetic condition offered in the same price range as the two above and is included with a non matching DWM magazine. All parts visible to the eye had matching serial numbers. To my eye it does not look to have been refinished but if it was, I believe that it was a period refinish. I will get pictures on Tuesday. Please forgive me if I am breaching any protocol by asking for opinions about pistols offered for sale at a commercial site and if so, please delete my post. I am just trying to get a better feel for the market and make an informed decision. Thank you in advance, Foxdoublegunner

06-01-2014, 04:53 PM	#5
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	everything depends on the collector - but I would say that a WW1 that has not been police used is worth more a 'double date' (the 1920 is not a date) is usually worth slightly less to many folks but condition is almost always the main issue... __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

06-01-2014, 05:11 PM	#6
foxdoublegunner User Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: California and Nevada Posts: 98 Thanks: 63 Thanked 67 Times in 29 Posts	Opinions requested Ed, Thank you. I suspected as such. The pistol in question is a 1916/1920 marked example. Looks to be in good condition and not to have seen much military or police service. Considering how much wear police firearms generally get, I thought that it looked quite good but I didn't want to ask to have it broken down unless I was serious about narrowing the field of candidates. Do you have any opinion about the two others offered on the commercial site? Thank you, Foxdoublegunner

06-01-2014, 07:40 PM	#7
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,655 Thanks: 3,212 Thanked 2,619 Times in 971 Posts	My opinion is they are both overpriced for marginal lugers. The 1913 has a poor barrel and an unmarked part. The 1916 has a poor finish . Unless you can get these for less I would suggest you look further. Only one opinion. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

06-01-2014, 09:39 PM	#9
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	lugers are much mre common than you think - patience is the key- lugers come up here on the forum fairly frequently - there are lots on dealer sites and lots on gunbroker decide what you want by era - by military or commercial - decide if a certain type interests you - if in 30 luger (7.65mm) or 9mm luger __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

06-01-2014, 04:25 PM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	rework does not always mean reblue...

06-01-2014, 04:50 PM	#4
foxdoublegunner User Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: California and Nevada Posts: 98 Thanks: 63 Thanked 67 Times in 29 Posts	Ed, generally speaking, with all other things being equal (condition & matching numbers), does a double date police rework lower the collector desirability or does that just depend upon the collectors field of interest.

06-01-2014, 08:09 PM	#8
foxdoublegunner User Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: California and Nevada Posts: 98 Thanks: 63 Thanked 67 Times in 29 Posts	Bill, Thank you. I am not seeing many for sale around here and those that are coming up are quite high in price so I am trying to get a feel for what is reasonable to expect for a particular price point. I was leaning more towards the 1916 due to the condition of the bore and matching magazine.

06-01-2014, 11:27 PM	#10
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,655 Thanks: 3,212 Thanked 2,619 Times in 971 Posts	Agree with Ed. Decide what you really want and what you want it for. Then spend lots of time looking. There are many online sites offering lugers. Use this Forum to help you. Lugers are a complex collecting item. You have some of the leading experts here and on Jan's forum. Use them! The biggest mistake you can make is rushing in to buy. We have all been there but mistakes can be costly. Welcome to the Forum and Happy collecting. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon