Help with my toggle catch?

[Blasfimus]

Alright so Heres what ive found. the thumb knob on the magazine that you use to help compress the spring is also the indicator that pushes up the piece that locks back the toggle yes? Im finding that once the locking piece settles back downward, it rub against its sides and becomes "stuck" to a point that the force of the magazine spring alone pushing up isnt enough to keep the piece up. I hope this makes sense to anyone reading it. The picture shows the wall im talking about. the magazine is fully inserted but the bolt catch is pushing against the wall preventing it going up. Is this correct?

[ithacaartist]

The hold open will shift fore and aft a little by sliding its spring in its channel. Try inserting a non marrying tool ahead of the tip of the spring and tweet it back enough that the hold open rises and falls freely within its well.

[John Sabato]

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

The hold open will shift fore and aft a little by sliding its spring in its channel. Try inserting a non marrying tool ahead of the tip of the spring and tweet it back enough that the hold open rises and falls freely within its well.

Sorry David, I don't think that your suggestion will really work because wouldn't the force of the first time the toggle is caught by the holdopen will slam the spring back to the forward position?

It appears that the holdopen and the well surface it rubs against requires some careful filing/tweaking/polishing to solve this issue.

Either that, or it may require a replacement holdopen. Is this holdopen number matched to the gun?

[mrerick]

It would also be worth checking to see if some old lubricant has congealed or solidified under the magazine catch. This could literally "gum up" the operation of this part, and keep it stuck down.

If you are considering polishing the well where you circled things in the photo, you'll probably need to remove the hold open anyway. Just use care to not break the thin spring at the tail of the part. Check the drawings to determine the right motion to remove the hold open.

Because of the operation of this part, it "takes a licking and keeps on ticking" every time it operates, getting slammed into the circled area of your photo. These are hardened metal surfaces, but might require some gentle polishing.

Marc

[John Sabato]

To remove the holdopen, you simply lift the rear end up high enough to pull it to the rear so that the spring slides out of its slot. Easy.

This is a perfect example of why Lugers were hand fitted and all the parts numbered. Look at the top of the safety bar in the same photo. See how tight the clearance is on that part and the rectangular hole it rides in? The level of precision engineering necessary to manufacture this pistol never ceases to amaze me.

[Blasfimus]

Could it be possible the spring is bent too far up? The catch shifts back in its slot if I push it and is loose, but it likes to pull itself back foreward and possibly past the little notch that's supposed to surround the pin. But again I don't know anything FOR SURE just going off what I can see. There is no gunk though the entire gun is dinged and scratched inside but every crevasse is perfectly clean.

[mrerick]

Here's a picture of some newly manufactured hold opens:




As you can see, there is a slight curve to the inner surface that runs on the pin in the frame. That appears to be missing from your hold open, and that may be allowing it to more out of proper position.

Here's a clear picture of the profile on one that looks almost new:



So, you may have one with wear, or that someone has improperly "adjusted".

Marc

[John Sabato]

Originally Posted by Blasfimus

Could it be possible the spring is bent too far up?

Yes!
... it should fit so it looks like the photos that Marc posted. Careful rebending of the spring (remove it, bend it, and then put it back), should return your holdopen to proper function.

[Blasfimus]

Alright I'll let you all know how it turns out. Any suggestions on proper methods to perform this task? Best way to remove the spring and best way to bend it without snapping it? I've snapped 2 springs in my lifetime attempting similar feats and would wish to not have to buy one of these springs.

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by John Sabato

Sorry David, I don't think that your suggestion will really work because wouldn't the force of the first time the toggle is caught by the holdopen will slam the spring back to the forward position?

It appears that the holdopen and the well surface it rubs against requires some careful filing/tweaking/polishing to solve this issue.

Either that, or it may require a replacement holdopen. Is this holdopen number matched to the gun?

On second thought, I think your last two suggestions are worth a shot. Truing the surfaces and edges of the little system might just do it. However, it is the half-hooked thingie, under the spring, at the front of the h.o. that provides the stopping abilities, where transfer of the forward forces is made to the pin through the frame that the concave notch of the h.o. engages. So, if removing burrs from the edges does not work, then the h.o. is too short--either an inappropriate replacement or worn in the notch enough to allow the h.o. to scrub against the front wall of the well. It could also be a soft pin which has developed an offset, though I've never heard of such a thing.

Maybe leave the spring bending attempts for last...

[John Sabato]

Originally Posted by Blasfimus

Any suggestions on proper methods to perform this task?

Yes, work slowly and be REAL careful.

Originally Posted by Blasfimus

Best way to remove the spring and best way to bend it without snapping it?

The spring is best removed with a pin punch the proper diameter working from the side of the holdopen. Proceed slowly, it shouldn't take much effort to get the spring out. On bending the spring, once again, work slowly up the length of the spring to get the shape you need a little at a time, use needle nose pliers and the force of your thumb, and be REAL careful. ( the springs are not that expensive if you break one...see LugerDoc if you need one )

Of course, you could just replace the spring and save yourself a whole lot of anxiety over possibly breaking the original.

[mrerick]

I think that the shape of the little hook that goes over the pin that holds the hold open in place is the likely root of this problem.

As your receiver slides back, there is nothing to prevent it from dragging the hold open rearwards with it.

The new ones I showed in my earlier post have enough of a hook to fit around the retention pin and prevent that movement. This area on your hold open looks flat.

Marc

[Blasfimus]

In person the hook is a bit more obvious to see. The current issue is that the hook is too far foreward and the bar is likely going slightly past the hook all together into the space between the spring and the catch. The gun is all mixed parts so if it breaks, oh well. Just don't wanna have to wait for another piece to shoot it soon. Just bought it and have been tweaking it and checking all the functions to make sure there are no mishaps when I do finally take it out. This appears to be the last issue that needs addressing.

[mrerick]

Scott, what you're encountering here explains why the original parts in Lugers were hand fitted and numbered. You can't just swap in certain parts without proper fitting. These kind of issues often happen with guns assembled from parts. Good to see you working your way through them on this one.

Marc