Cracking RH grip...

Zorba · 03-22-2014, 07:02 PM

Just got back from the range where I was mainly shooting my new Ruger MK III, but I also sent 30 rounds downrange with my Luger. I could feel the RH grip rotating/torquing under fire, when I got home and dismounted it, it had developed a fairly sizable crack on the top end near the notch for the backside of the magazine release. I was able to repair the crack quite nicely with superglue, but obviously don't want to continue this practice...

I'd observed this behavior before, but not this bad and not without quite a few more rounds through the gun.

What am I doing wrong/what should I look for in order to get the grip to behave itself? There isn't anything obvious to casual inspection by my untrained eye.

These are, by all accounts, older, but repro grips.

mrerick · 03-22-2014, 07:13 PM

Hi Zorba,

Even original grips had to be fitted to some extent. You may also be dealing with warping or other humidity related changes in the wood.

Should you need to repair a crack again in the future, consider using the water based "Gorilla Glue". I've found this to be very strong and dimension stable over time.

Super Glue is an anaerobic setting Cyanoacrylate adhesive.

Marc

Zorba · 03-22-2014, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrerick

Super Glue is an anaerobic setting Cyanoacrylate adhesive.

Yes, this I know as it is used to tighten tuning pins in pianos - but you consider the water based Gorilla Glue better than CA (for grip repair) because? Is it an aliphatic resin glue like "Elmer's Carpenter's Glue" or another formulation? Hot hide glue has become my favorite for most wood projects, but probably wouldn't be the best here as it exhibits inferior shear strength.

*shrug* - I dunno which would be best!

318is_Parabellum · 03-22-2014, 09:35 PM

Gentlemen,
I don't profess to have a lot of experience with wood repair, but I have had some experience with both cyanoacrylate and gorilla glue.

Put simply, cyanoacrylate does not expand in place the way I've seen Gorilla glue have. I would have serious doubts that gorilla glue would produce a nearly invisible repair, whereas I've had good luck with cyanoacrylate glue repairing a slightly cracked M-14 stock (good strong invisible repair). I've had trouble with Gorilla glue expanding as it cured. It is a strong bond, but hardly invisible.

Just my $0.02, your experience may differ!

Zorba · 03-22-2014, 09:40 PM

I think - with emphasis on the word "THINK", that there's both an expanding, and a non-expanding Gorilla glue. I've used the expanding type - and its darn fine glue for applications that can tolerate it - but have zero experience with the non-expanding type which I have a fuzzy recollection of seeing in the store. Beyond that, I know nothing!

Edward Tinker · 03-22-2014, 09:43 PM

Get different grips

I have some atrocious aftermarket I would send you for free - email me

Ed

Zorba · 03-22-2014, 10:01 PM

They must be truly atrocious - PM sent! LOL!

stressed · 03-22-2014, 10:41 PM

I have some atrocious aftermarket byf black plastic grips if you prefer - lol. That's why I like the plastic for shooting

Zorba · 03-22-2014, 11:57 PM

I'm really feelin' the love here, 2 offers of atrocious Luger grips in one day! Nowhere else but here!

SteveM · 03-23-2014, 07:54 AM

I would get a pair of the EG bullseye grips. They're not ugly but they aren't free either.

mrerick · 03-23-2014, 09:01 AM

I've found that the surface bond created by cyanoacrylate glues ends up being more prone to breaking than the bond created by glues that expand into the wood pores and set.

That's why you see the Elmers type glues used extensively in woodworking. The Gorilla Glue is a stronger setting version of those products.

The key is that you moisten the wood itself prior to applying the resin glue, then clamp them together to ensure that the glue expands into the wood pores. It's also critical not to overuse the glue.

The project I did with this was replacement of a million dollar chip. After re-staining the wood, the repair is hardly visible. The seam line is at the base of a groove.

Marc

318is_Parabellum · 03-23-2014, 09:38 AM

The VoPo bullseye grips are what I really want for my Russian capture Simson. I have a set of the crappy (made in India?) fitting wood grips on it now.

I appreciate the information regarding different glues with wood repair. Luger University, online!

stressed · 03-23-2014, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 318is_Parabellum

The VoPo bullseye grips are what I really want for my Russian capture Simson. I have a set of the crappy (made in India?) fitting wood grips on it now.

I appreciate the information regarding different glues with wood repair. Luger University, online!

http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Products/466010.htm

You're welcome.

gunbugs · 03-23-2014, 09:24 PM

I use Brownells Acra-glas gel epoxy to "bed" loose grips, and have had excellent results.

kzullick · 03-23-2014, 11:26 PM

Stop hugging it so tight! But seriously, I know 4 gunsmiths and they all use super glue on cracked grips or stocks, if completely broken they use Titebond III.

John Sabato · 03-24-2014, 10:15 AM

I have ONE RIGHT SIDE EG bullseye grip in great condition. Got it a lot of Luger parts won on ebay years ago. Does anyone have an orphan LEFT grip that they need a mate for?

ithacaartist · 03-24-2014, 11:13 AM

I think loose grips will get looser with shooting. When fired, the grip frame is propelled backward by the shot. Since you are holding the grips steady, the effect is to slam them forward in relation to the grip frame. What ordinarily resists this would be the forward edges of the material remaining on the backsides of the grips that fits a small fraction of an inch into the open, relieved areas of the sides of the frame. This interface should be snug. A rattling fit will allow the grips to be shocked forward every shot, compressing or further eroding the wood necessary for a snug fit.

In order to avoid this "running start" at messing up the grips, I've added a dab of 1-hr. epoxy where necessary to take up the play. To avoid a lot of fitting/filing/sanding after the epoxy has set, I wait until the epoxy isn't sticky any more, but still a bit

lastic". Just the right amount of repair material will be squished out of the way when the grip is squeezed into place, and the thickness of the epoxy shim will be quite precise when left to cure. One smooth layer of HanidWrap is something I'd recommend for protecting the metal's finish.

Zorba · 04-05-2014, 09:01 PM

Thanx to Mr. Tinker, I now have a new set of grips:

Brand new, wood based "stag" grips. I actually think I like them - they're MUCH fatter in the hand than the regular style. My wife and I are headed for the range tomorrow, I'll see how I like shooting with them - my wife may like them better too. I need to test out my latest G.T. sourced and fxo sprung triple-kay mag as well.

Thank you Edward!!

G.T. · 04-05-2014, 09:32 PM

Hi Zorba, good luck at the range! Anxious to know how the latest trip. K mag works with the fxo spring! They're turning out to be the best magazine on the block??...

... ugliest magazine as well??....

... best to you, til...lat'r....GT

Lugerdoc · 04-07-2014, 08:00 PM

John, I could probably use your DDR right side (pm sent). The easiest fix that I've found for loose PO8 grips, is to place a small rubber O ring under the grip screw, which will push up the grip when tightened. TH

03-22-2014, 07:02 PM	#1
Zorba User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Merritt Island, Fl Posts: 952 Thanks: 777 Thanked 528 Times in 290 Posts	Cracking RH grip... Just got back from the range where I was mainly shooting my new Ruger MK III, but I also sent 30 rounds downrange with my Luger. I could feel the RH grip rotating/torquing under fire, when I got home and dismounted it, it had developed a fairly sizable crack on the top end near the notch for the backside of the magazine release. I was able to repair the crack quite nicely with superglue, but obviously don't want to continue this practice... I'd observed this behavior before, but not this bad and not without quite a few more rounds through the gun. What am I doing wrong/what should I look for in order to get the grip to behave itself? There isn't anything obvious to casual inspection by my untrained eye. These are, by all accounts, older, but repro grips.

03-22-2014, 07:13 PM	#2
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,920 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,135 Times in 1,518 Posts	Hi Zorba, Even original grips had to be fitted to some extent. You may also be dealing with warping or other humidity related changes in the wood. Should you need to repair a crack again in the future, consider using the water based "Gorilla Glue". I've found this to be very strong and dimension stable over time. Super Glue is an anaerobic setting Cyanoacrylate adhesive. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

03-22-2014, 09:43 PM	#6
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,967 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	Get different grips I have some atrocious aftermarket I would send you for free - email me Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

03-23-2014, 07:54 AM	#10
SteveM User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 1,016 Thanks: 94 Thanked 275 Times in 137 Posts	I would get a pair of the EG bullseye grips. They're not ugly but they aren't free either. Attached Thumbnails

03-23-2014, 09:01 AM	#11
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,920 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,135 Times in 1,518 Posts	I've found that the surface bond created by cyanoacrylate glues ends up being more prone to breaking than the bond created by glues that expand into the wood pores and set. That's why you see the Elmers type glues used extensively in woodworking. The Gorilla Glue is a stronger setting version of those products. The key is that you moisten the wood itself prior to applying the resin glue, then clamp them together to ensure that the glue expands into the wood pores. It's also critical not to overuse the glue. The project I did with this was replacement of a million dollar chip. After re-staining the wood, the repair is hardly visible. The seam line is at the base of a groove. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

03-22-2014, 09:35 PM	#4
318is_Parabellum User Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: West Virginia Posts: 130 Thanks: 80 Thanked 75 Times in 31 Posts	Gentlemen, I don't profess to have a lot of experience with wood repair, but I have had some experience with both cyanoacrylate and gorilla glue. Put simply, cyanoacrylate does not expand in place the way I've seen Gorilla glue have. I would have serious doubts that gorilla glue would produce a nearly invisible repair, whereas I've had good luck with cyanoacrylate glue repairing a slightly cracked M-14 stock (good strong invisible repair). I've had trouble with Gorilla glue expanding as it cured. It is a strong bond, but hardly invisible. Just my $0.02, your experience may differ!

03-22-2014, 09:40 PM	#5
Zorba User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Merritt Island, Fl Posts: 952 Thanks: 777 Thanked 528 Times in 290 Posts	I think - with emphasis on the word "THINK", that there's both an expanding, and a non-expanding Gorilla glue. I've used the expanding type - and its darn fine glue for applications that can tolerate it - but have zero experience with the non-expanding type which I have a fuzzy recollection of seeing in the store. Beyond that, I know nothing!

03-22-2014, 10:01 PM	#7
Zorba User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Merritt Island, Fl Posts: 952 Thanks: 777 Thanked 528 Times in 290 Posts	They must be truly atrocious - PM sent! LOL!

03-22-2014, 10:41 PM	#8
stressed User Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 197 Thanks: 41 Thanked 43 Times in 30 Posts	I have some atrocious aftermarket byf black plastic grips if you prefer - lol. That's why I like the plastic for shooting

03-22-2014, 11:57 PM	#9
Zorba User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Merritt Island, Fl Posts: 952 Thanks: 777 Thanked 528 Times in 290 Posts	I'm really feelin' the love here, 2 offers of atrocious Luger grips in one day! Nowhere else but here!

03-23-2014, 09:38 AM	#12
318is_Parabellum User Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: West Virginia Posts: 130 Thanks: 80 Thanked 75 Times in 31 Posts	The VoPo bullseye grips are what I really want for my Russian capture Simson. I have a set of the crappy (made in India?) fitting wood grips on it now. I appreciate the information regarding different glues with wood repair. Luger University, online!

03-23-2014, 09:24 PM	#14
gunbugs Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Fairbanks, Alaska. Home of the best moose. Posts: 672 Thanks: 371 Thanked 1,202 Times in 407 Posts	I use Brownells Acra-glas gel epoxy to "bed" loose grips, and have had excellent results.

03-23-2014, 11:26 PM	#15
kzullick Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: East Berwick, Pennsylvania Posts: 239 Thanks: 683 Thanked 104 Times in 85 Posts	Stop hugging it so tight! But seriously, I know 4 gunsmiths and they all use super glue on cracked grips or stocks, if completely broken they use Titebond III.

03-24-2014, 10:15 AM	#16
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	I have ONE RIGHT SIDE EG bullseye grip in great condition. Got it a lot of Luger parts won on ebay years ago. Does anyone have an orphan LEFT grip that they need a mate for? __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

03-24-2014, 11:13 AM	#17
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,376 Thanks: 7,448 Thanked 2,613 Times in 1,380 Posts	I think loose grips will get looser with shooting. When fired, the grip frame is propelled backward by the shot. Since you are holding the grips steady, the effect is to slam them forward in relation to the grip frame. What ordinarily resists this would be the forward edges of the material remaining on the backsides of the grips that fits a small fraction of an inch into the open, relieved areas of the sides of the frame. This interface should be snug. A rattling fit will allow the grips to be shocked forward every shot, compressing or further eroding the wood necessary for a snug fit. In order to avoid this "running start" at messing up the grips, I've added a dab of 1-hr. epoxy where necessary to take up the play. To avoid a lot of fitting/filing/sanding after the epoxy has set, I wait until the epoxy isn't sticky any more, but still a bit lastic". Just the right amount of repair material will be squished out of the way when the grip is squeezed into place, and the thickness of the epoxy shim will be quite precise when left to cure. One smooth layer of HanidWrap is something I'd recommend for protecting the metal's finish. __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

04-05-2014, 09:01 PM	#18
Zorba User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Merritt Island, Fl Posts: 952 Thanks: 777 Thanked 528 Times in 290 Posts	Thanx to Mr. Tinker, I now have a new set of grips: Brand new, wood based "stag" grips. I actually think I like them - they're MUCH fatter in the hand than the regular style. My wife and I are headed for the range tomorrow, I'll see how I like shooting with them - my wife may like them better too. I need to test out my latest G.T. sourced and fxo sprung triple-kay mag as well. Thank you Edward!!

04-05-2014, 09:32 PM	#19
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,528 Thanks: 1,334 Thanked 3,711 Times in 1,014 Posts	looks Good! Hi Zorba, good luck at the range! Anxious to know how the latest trip. K mag works with the fxo spring! They're turning out to be the best magazine on the block??... ... ugliest magazine as well??.... ... best to you, til...lat'r....GT

04-07-2014, 08:00 PM	#20
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	John, I could probably use your DDR right side (pm sent). The easiest fix that I've found for loose PO8 grips, is to place a small rubber O ring under the grip screw, which will push up the grip when tightened. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net