Toggle axle retaining pin - white?

Geo99 · 02-28-2014, 09:46 PM

I see quite a few folks insist that the toggle axle retaining pin on rust blued Lugers must be in the white, if it is truly an original finish gun. (See picture below for those who don't know what I'm talking about).

I would like to gently dispute this claim.

1. I have only observed the pin being white on Imperial 1906-1934 rust blued Lugers, but never on salt blued Lugers (Mausers).

2. I almost never see it white on 1936 to early 1937 rust blued Mauser Lugers, but I have seen a few. And some G date (1935) Lugers have this pin blued. Is it possible the pins were originally blued and wore off until white?

3. Has anyone considered the fact that this pin may have been replaced with a blue pin, without refinishing the whole gun? I have one like this and I kept before and after pics to prove it, in case I ever sell it.

- Geo

Geo99 · 02-28-2014, 10:04 PM

Here are just a few pictures I have collected of 1935-1937 Mauser S/42 rust blued guns - all appear to have blued retaining pin. As far as I know these are all original finish guns, but even if not, they're certainly not all reblued.

spartacus38 · 03-02-2014, 08:55 PM

1934 thru 1 st variation 1937 are fire blued and numbered.
Bob

Geo99 · 03-03-2014, 07:34 PM

Bob,

That would explain why I see so many blued pins on the rust blued Mauser Lugers. I was looking only for ones with pins in the white. I have only held one first var 1937 S/42 in my hands, so I was not aware about the blued retaining pins. I hope my post did not come off as arrogant, I didn't mean it to. Thank you for helping me (and others) to understand this.

Most of the 1934 'K' date S/42 I have seen pictures of all have white pins - would you say that is because the color has worn off?

The pins are numbered? I would never have imagined that would be the case. Where are they numbered?

Seems there's always more to learn,
- Geo

spartacus38 · 03-03-2014, 07:54 PM

1934 K-Date pins were fire blued and numbered on the left side with the last 2 digits.
Learning Lugers is a never ending process.
Bob

wlyon · 03-03-2014, 09:11 PM

We seem to be talking about two different luger pins. Axle pin and toggle retaining pin. Bill

ithacaartist · 03-03-2014, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wlyon

We seem to be talking about two different luger pins. Axle pin and toggle retaining pin. Bill

Bill has it. Obviously we're not talking about numbered toggle axle retaining pins! Reminds me of the unconscious juxtaposition of extractor and ejector...

spartacus38 · 03-04-2014, 03:00 AM

The pin between the 2 toggle knobs should be in the white 1934 thru first variation 1937.
Bob

Geo99 · 03-05-2014, 01:30 PM

OK, now that we all know what pin we're talking about, let's back up. I have always heard this retaining pin should be white on rust blued Lugers, but as I said, I have found many examples of what appear to be perfectly original guns with that pin blued.

Bob - if what you are saying about 1934-37 is true, how to explain the pictures I posted above?

I posted full pictures so everyone can see the pin is the same blue color as the rest of each gun. They are big pictures so if you double click on it you can zoom in. If the pin was just rusted from age, I would expect it to look a somewhat different color.

- Geo

spartacus38 · 03-05-2014, 02:29 PM

Geo,
My early K Dates #30 and #321 have the pin blued but Mauser was experimenting with the
bluing process.
I would check to make sure there are halos around the serial number on the bottom of the barrel.
Bob

Geo99 · 03-08-2014, 07:09 PM

Every one of the guns I posted pics above has a halo around the barrel SN, and sometimes on a toggle piece SN too. You can see a halo around the extractor on the third one down (1936 #12). They also appear original in every other way, I just didn't post all the pictures.

So do we agree this means some (many?) early rust blued Mauser Lugers do have legitimate blued retaining pins?

- Geo

02-28-2014, 10:04 PM	#2
Geo99 User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Whidbey Island WA Posts: 400 Thanks: 102 Thanked 127 Times in 75 Posts	Pictures Here are just a few pictures I have collected of 1935-1937 Mauser S/42 rust blued guns - all appear to have blued retaining pin. As far as I know these are all original finish guns, but even if not, they're certainly not all reblued. Attached Thumbnails __________________ "Diplomacy is the art of saying nice doggie, until you can find a rock." - Will Rogers

03-03-2014, 07:34 PM	#4
Geo99 User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Whidbey Island WA Posts: 400 Thanks: 102 Thanked 127 Times in 75 Posts	Bob, That would explain why I see so many blued pins on the rust blued Mauser Lugers. I was looking only for ones with pins in the white. I have only held one first var 1937 S/42 in my hands, so I was not aware about the blued retaining pins. I hope my post did not come off as arrogant, I didn't mean it to. Thank you for helping me (and others) to understand this. Most of the 1934 'K' date S/42 I have seen pictures of all have white pins - would you say that is because the color has worn off? The pins are numbered? I would never have imagined that would be the case. Where are they numbered? Seems there's always more to learn, - Geo __________________ "Diplomacy is the art of saying nice doggie, until you can find a rock." - Will Rogers

03-03-2014, 09:11 PM	#6
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,652 Thanks: 3,210 Thanked 2,613 Times in 969 Posts	We seem to be talking about two different luger pins. Axle pin and toggle retaining pin. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

03-05-2014, 01:30 PM	#9
Geo99 User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Whidbey Island WA Posts: 400 Thanks: 102 Thanked 127 Times in 75 Posts	OK, now that we all know what pin we're talking about, let's back up. I have always heard this retaining pin should be white on rust blued Lugers, but as I said, I have found many examples of what appear to be perfectly original guns with that pin blued. Bob - if what you are saying about 1934-37 is true, how to explain the pictures I posted above? I posted full pictures so everyone can see the pin is the same blue color as the rest of each gun. They are big pictures so if you double click on it you can zoom in. If the pin was just rusted from age, I would expect it to look a somewhat different color. - Geo __________________ "Diplomacy is the art of saying nice doggie, until you can find a rock." - Will Rogers

03-08-2014, 07:09 PM	#11
Geo99 User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Whidbey Island WA Posts: 400 Thanks: 102 Thanked 127 Times in 75 Posts	Every one of the guns I posted pics above has a halo around the barrel SN, and sometimes on a toggle piece SN too. You can see a halo around the extractor on the third one down (1936 #12). They also appear original in every other way, I just didn't post all the pictures. So do we agree this means some (many?) early rust blued Mauser Lugers do have legitimate blued retaining pins? - Geo __________________ "Diplomacy is the art of saying nice doggie, until you can find a rock." - Will Rogers

02-28-2014, 09:46 PM	#1
Geo99 User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Whidbey Island WA Posts: 400 Thanks: 102 Thanked 127 Times in 75 Posts	Toggle axle retaining pin - white? I see quite a few folks insist that the toggle axle retaining pin on rust blued Lugers must be in the white, if it is truly an original finish gun. (See picture below for those who don't know what I'm talking about). I would like to gently dispute this claim. 1. I have only observed the pin being white on Imperial 1906-1934 rust blued Lugers, but never on salt blued Lugers (Mausers). 2. I almost never see it white on 1936 to early 1937 rust blued Mauser Lugers, but I have seen a few. And some G date (1935) Lugers have this pin blued. Is it possible the pins were originally blued and wore off until white? 3. Has anyone considered the fact that this pin may have been replaced with a blue pin, without refinishing the whole gun? I have one like this and I kept before and after pics to prove it, in case I ever sell it. - Geo Attached Images __________________ "Diplomacy is the art of saying nice doggie, until you can find a rock." - Will Rogers Last edited by Geo99; 03-01-2014 at 12:54 AM.

03-02-2014, 08:55 PM	#3
spartacus38 Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: South Lake Tahoe,CA. Posts: 695 Thanks: 0 Thanked 70 Times in 56 Posts	1934 thru 1 st variation 1937 are fire blued and numbered. Bob

03-03-2014, 07:54 PM	#5
spartacus38 Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: South Lake Tahoe,CA. Posts: 695 Thanks: 0 Thanked 70 Times in 56 Posts	1934 K-Date pins were fire blued and numbered on the left side with the last 2 digits. Learning Lugers is a never ending process. Bob

03-04-2014, 03:00 AM	#8
spartacus38 Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: South Lake Tahoe,CA. Posts: 695 Thanks: 0 Thanked 70 Times in 56 Posts	The pin between the 2 toggle knobs should be in the white 1934 thru first variation 1937. Bob

03-05-2014, 02:29 PM	#10
spartacus38 Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: South Lake Tahoe,CA. Posts: 695 Thanks: 0 Thanked 70 Times in 56 Posts	Geo, My early K Dates #30 and #321 have the pin blued but Mauser was experimenting with the bluing process. I would check to make sure there are halos around the serial number on the bottom of the barrel. Bob