P08 Information

7anthony7 · 02-24-2014, 03:17 PM

Hello,

I was directed to this forum from another and was hoping someone could give me some information on a pistol that was found at my grandfathers. I looked through the identification guide here but was unable to determine what exactly I have. Any information would be appreciated as I am no expert. Someone told me it is a P08.

The gun looks almost new. The barrel is approximately 4" long and has 1918 stamped on the frame above the barrel. The serial number 7958 is on the frame and 58 is stamped the visible parts. It looks like someone scratched the 58 on a couple parts as well. On the right side there is a faint E.L. Pennsauer (not 100% sure exact letters as it is faint). above the trigger guard is the serial with a "Y" below. "Gesichert" is in white at the safety lever. S/42 is on top with a small "06" to the front and rear. The 06 appears to have an x through it. It has a lanyard loop on the rear of the action, brown plastic grips, and the knobs are rounded and textured on the outside. The gun had two magazines with a matching serial number. The proof marks are difficult to identify. Thanks again for any info. I apologize for the poor pictures.

George Anderson · 02-24-2014, 03:23 PM

Saw use by the VOPO in East Germany after WWII.

Edward Tinker · 02-24-2014, 03:25 PM

Welcome to the forum

Any idea or story of where it was acquired?

Can you give us better pictures of the name markings? and is it obviously import marked anywhere, like on barrel etc?

Ed

7anthony7 · 02-24-2014, 03:34 PM

Thank you for the quick replies. Here are a couple pictures of the markings. Under the barrel was a crest and that is it. I can not find any importation marks or any other information. Unfortunately he passed and no one knew about the gun. The family is looking to liquidate most of the belongings and someone offered my uncle $150 for the gun, but I'm thinking that's a little low for it. But then again, I'm no expert. Thanks again for any more info.

7anthony7 · 02-24-2014, 03:35 PM

What is the VOPO?

George Anderson · 02-24-2014, 03:46 PM

VOPO is Volkspolizei or national police. If the magazines are matched they will probably be marked 1/1001 on the tube. It's an import mixed parts gun and should sell quickly at about $600.

Edward Tinker · 02-24-2014, 03:46 PM

volkspolizei - east german police - that is a broad sense since many departments used it

A 9mm as a shooter is worth $500-$800 / usually in the middle ground depending on pitting or wear on the barrel, outside, etc.

7anthony7 · 02-24-2014, 04:06 PM

Thank you for your information!

Patronen · 02-24-2014, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7anthony7

Thank you for the quick replies. Here are a couple pictures of the markings. Under the barrel was a crest and that is it. I can not find any importation marks or any other information. Unfortunately he passed and no one knew about the gun. The family is looking to liquidate most of the belongings and someone offered my uncle $150 for the gun, but I'm thinking that's a little low for it. But then again, I'm no expert. Thanks again for any more info.

At a $150., either the potential buyer doesn't know what the value is either or their looking to rip you folks off.

Dwight Gruber · 02-24-2014, 06:33 PM

This is a very interesting pistol, and I'd like to invite everyone to take up the exercise and descibe exactly what it is.

--Dwight

rolandtg · 02-24-2014, 06:42 PM

Missing final proofs?
Neat mix-master!

SteveM · 02-24-2014, 07:06 PM

Well the obvious is a Mauser frame, EG replacement barrel, maybe an Erfurt cannon, part of the toggle is Mauser. The sideplate may be EG as well. Would be nice to see full view pics of both left and right side and some higher rez pics of proofs.

318is_Parabellum · 02-24-2014, 07:32 PM

Looks like the receiver/barrel extension was a rejected and reworked part (is the small proof the 'rc' proof?), missing 2 imperial acceptance proofs, later 1930's era drop wing eagle proof in the firing proof position. Czech-made E. German crown n proofed replacement barrel. Later Mauser frame with 'hump'.

Crossroads Gun shop, Pennsauken NJ import-marked. The E. German VoPo shield marking in front of the receiver/barrel extension has been completely obliterated... Could this pistol have been one of those imported before the Wall fell?

The obliterated E. German marking was done so in order to obscure this gun's East German origin before being imported from a third-party state, was it not?

I would call this luger a VoPo rework of a late 30's Third Reich rework, based on what I can tell...

DavidJayUden · 02-24-2014, 07:36 PM

OK, I'll bite. WW1 DWM artillery upper with Mauser toggle and commercial barrel. Later Mauser frame.
dju

danielsand · 02-24-2014, 07:57 PM

I couldn't help it. Since I am German by ancestry, and speak fluent language of my ancestors, I had to chime in. Someone said that "Volks Polizei" (VoPo) means " National police".

Direct translation is "People's Police". Since DDR (East Germany) was Communist (under the Soviet thumb), ALL official names of governmental departments and such, were called "People's" (kinda like "People's Republic of China"). See,.....Communists tried hard to convince their people, that EVERYTHING belongs to them! Of course it was a farce (still is in China and Cuba, among others), and if you care to research, ALL countries in the world that are rulled by Communists, have a sort of fetish in labeling EVERYTHING "People's"!!

And guess who started it all? No other than Adolf Hitler, and the one thing that remains to this day is "Volkswagen", or "People's Car" in English.

So there you have it.

George Anderson · 02-24-2014, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danielsand

I couldn't help it. Since I am German by ancestry, and speak fluent language of my ancestors, I had to chime in. Someone said that "Volks Polizei" (VoPo) means " National police".

Direct translation is "People's Police". Since DDR (East Germany) was Communist (under the Soviet thumb), ALL official names of governmental departments and such, were called "People's" (kinda like "People's Republic of China"). See,.....Communists tried hard to convince their people, that EVERYTHING belongs to them! Of course it was a farce (still is in China and Cuba, among others), and if you care to research, ALL countries in the world that are rulled by Communists, have a sort of fetish in labeling EVERYTHING "People's"!!

And guess who started it all? No other than Adolf Hitler, and the one thing that remains to this day is "Volkswagen", or "People's Car" in English.

So there you have it.

I wrote "national police" because the Volkspolizei has no American equivalent; the United Sates, as of today, has nothing close to the communist People's Police. Literal translations are sometimes confusing.

danielsand · 02-25-2014, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Anderson

I wrote "national police" because the Volkspolizei has no American equivalent; the United Sates, as of today, has nothing close to the communist People's Police. Literal translations are sometimes confusing.

You are right. Today's police is "Bundes Polizei". I am sure you are familiar with the translation of "Bundes". Since they don't carry Lugers, we don't have to worry about calling their decomissioned handguns "BuPo"s!

The only police force we have on the "national" (read "federal") level, would be the FBI. But they are organized differently than Volkspolizei. In the Communist world, all the police force in the country is directed from the central headquarters under Secretariat of Interior (ministry). Another word Communists have fetish for is "secretary", "secretariat", and other variations of the same.

So if the country is called "People's Republic of.......", the police is also called "People's Police".

My post was not trying to corect or criticize yours. Just trying to explain how, and why the VoPos got their nickname (and BTW, VoPo moniker exists only in the USA, kinda like the "Black Widow", or "Luger").

02-24-2014, 03:17 PM	#1
7anthony7 New User Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	P08 Information Hello, I was directed to this forum from another and was hoping someone could give me some information on a pistol that was found at my grandfathers. I looked through the identification guide here but was unable to determine what exactly I have. Any information would be appreciated as I am no expert. Someone told me it is a P08. The gun looks almost new. The barrel is approximately 4" long and has 1918 stamped on the frame above the barrel. The serial number 7958 is on the frame and 58 is stamped the visible parts. It looks like someone scratched the 58 on a couple parts as well. On the right side there is a faint E.L. Pennsauer (not 100% sure exact letters as it is faint). above the trigger guard is the serial with a "Y" below. "Gesichert" is in white at the safety lever. S/42 is on top with a small "06" to the front and rear. The 06 appears to have an x through it. It has a lanyard loop on the rear of the action, brown plastic grips, and the knobs are rounded and textured on the outside. The gun had two magazines with a matching serial number. The proof marks are difficult to identify. Thanks again for any info. I apologize for the poor pictures.

02-24-2014, 03:25 PM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,963 Thanks: 2,064 Thanked 4,593 Times in 2,115 Posts	Welcome to the forum Any idea or story of where it was acquired? Can you give us better pictures of the name markings? and is it obviously import marked anywhere, like on barrel etc? Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

02-24-2014, 03:46 PM	#7
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,963 Thanks: 2,064 Thanked 4,593 Times in 2,115 Posts	volkspolizei - east german police - that is a broad sense since many departments used it A 9mm as a shooter is worth $500-$800 / usually in the middle ground depending on pitting or wear on the barrel, outside, etc. __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

02-24-2014, 03:23 PM	#2
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,531 Times in 788 Posts	Saw use by the VOPO in East Germany after WWII.

02-24-2014, 03:34 PM	#4
7anthony7 New User Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thank you for the quick replies. Here are a couple pictures of the markings. Under the barrel was a crest and that is it. I can not find any importation marks or any other information. Unfortunately he passed and no one knew about the gun. The family is looking to liquidate most of the belongings and someone offered my uncle $150 for the gun, but I'm thinking that's a little low for it. But then again, I'm no expert. Thanks again for any more info.

02-24-2014, 03:35 PM	#5
7anthony7 New User Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	What is the VOPO?

02-24-2014, 04:06 PM	#8
7anthony7 New User Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thank you for your information!

02-24-2014, 06:33 PM	#10
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	This is a very interesting pistol, and I'd like to invite everyone to take up the exercise and descibe exactly what it is. --Dwight

02-24-2014, 06:42 PM	#11
rolandtg User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Hill Country Posts: 479 Thanks: 389 Thanked 265 Times in 114 Posts	Missing final proofs? Neat mix-master!

02-24-2014, 07:06 PM	#12
SteveM User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 1,016 Thanks: 94 Thanked 275 Times in 137 Posts	Well the obvious is a Mauser frame, EG replacement barrel, maybe an Erfurt cannon, part of the toggle is Mauser. The sideplate may be EG as well. Would be nice to see full view pics of both left and right side and some higher rez pics of proofs.

02-24-2014, 07:32 PM	#13
318is_Parabellum User Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: West Virginia Posts: 130 Thanks: 80 Thanked 75 Times in 31 Posts	Looks like the receiver/barrel extension was a rejected and reworked part (is the small proof the 'rc' proof?), missing 2 imperial acceptance proofs, later 1930's era drop wing eagle proof in the firing proof position. Czech-made E. German crown n proofed replacement barrel. Later Mauser frame with 'hump'. Crossroads Gun shop, Pennsauken NJ import-marked. The E. German VoPo shield marking in front of the receiver/barrel extension has been completely obliterated... Could this pistol have been one of those imported before the Wall fell? The obliterated E. German marking was done so in order to obscure this gun's East German origin before being imported from a third-party state, was it not? I would call this luger a VoPo rework of a late 30's Third Reich rework, based on what I can tell...

02-24-2014, 07:36 PM	#14
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	OK, I'll bite. WW1 DWM artillery upper with Mauser toggle and commercial barrel. Later Mauser frame. dju

02-24-2014, 07:57 PM	#15
danielsand User Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: SoCal Posts: 137 Thanks: 52 Thanked 100 Times in 43 Posts	I couldn't help it. Since I am German by ancestry, and speak fluent language of my ancestors, I had to chime in. Someone said that "Volks Polizei" (VoPo) means " National police". Direct translation is "People's Police". Since DDR (East Germany) was Communist (under the Soviet thumb), ALL official names of governmental departments and such, were called "People's" (kinda like "People's Republic of China"). See,.....Communists tried hard to convince their people, that EVERYTHING belongs to them! Of course it was a farce (still is in China and Cuba, among others), and if you care to research, ALL countries in the world that are rulled by Communists, have a sort of fetish in labeling EVERYTHING "People's"!! And guess who started it all? No other than Adolf Hitler, and the one thing that remains to this day is "Volkswagen", or "People's Car" in English. So there you have it.