Luger Knowledge

wlyon · 02-01-2014, 03:21 PM

I was thinking today (dangerous) about how far we have come in luger knowledge.
When I started collecting the "bible" was Fred Datig's "The Luger Pistol". Finally here were all the answers. Oh Boy.
Each author has further advanced our interest and knowledge. Errors sure but it was a documented start. We will continue to find errors in the current books. And that's all right; we are learning.
We hear comments about how wrong some earlier books were. But realizing it's incorrect shows our advancement.
We have obtained this knowledge by people studying, asking questions, countless hours spent reading and looking at lugers, and using earlier authors' work.
The internet has done much for our hobby. The rapid daily exchange of information is amazing.
So a big thank you to all the past, present and future authors, collectors worldwide ,forum owners/ moderators , and the willingness to share. Bill

Ron Wood · 02-01-2014, 04:35 PM

Very well said Bill. To paraphrase something I once heard...we can see farther only because we stand on the shoulders of those who have gone before.

CAP Black · 02-01-2014, 10:20 PM

The way the knowledge is shared is astounding!!!!!
thank you
Jack

sheepherder · 02-01-2014, 10:59 PM

Perhaps we should be more tolerant of those members we find rude, arrogant, and inflexible...They force us to investigate more thoroughly, and go that little bit extra to validate or refute their claims...

You all know of whom I speak...

MikeP · 02-04-2014, 03:26 AM

When I joined the old forum about 1997 I thought I knew a thing or two.
I had "fooled" with Lugers since the early 60s.

Got corrected really quick.
Books are good things, but shared knowledge and discussion beat all.

John Sabato · 02-04-2014, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheepherder

You all know of whom I speak...

Of course we do Rich, but we don't hold it against you...

BTW, I think we do a fair job of "toleration" on this forum. The gentlemanly (& gentlewomanly) manners required to participate here make this forum unique in the firearms world. It has benefited us all with not only knowledge, but new friendships.

alanint · 02-04-2014, 09:28 AM

I agree. It takes quite a bit to get banned here.

I'm always grateful at how gentlemanly you guys correct me when I stick my foot in it.

John Sabato · 02-04-2014, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanint

I agree. It takes quite a bit to get banned here.

I'm always grateful at how gentlemanly you guys correct me when I stick my foot in it.

I heard a saying years ago, that some people only open their mouth to change feet! Not directed at anyone here, of course!

sheepherder · 02-04-2014, 11:41 AM

When I was quite young, I would be interested in doing some kind of project...And I would ask my dad how to do it...he would tell me that it couldn't be done...I would look at what I wanted to do and wonder why it couldn't be done...And eventually I would figure out a way to do it...(And be annoyed at my dad as well)...

I finally figured out that my dad was challenging me to figure it out myself...Instead of telling me how to do it...

People who stir controversy and annoy us with their pompous self-centered opinions inspire and goad us to find a response...Sometimes it can be very beneficial to all concerned...

Or...We could all be sheep and say "Yes, it's obvious there is no such thing as a Totenkopf/Spandau/Russian Contract Luger...Let's stop wasting time discussing/researching it and move on to more pleasant topics"...

alanint · 02-04-2014, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheepherder

People who stir controversy and annoy us with their pompous self-centered opinions inspire and goad us to find a response...Sometimes it can be very beneficial to all concerned...
"[/I]...

I have no issues with overblown egos or legitimate challenges. Most people who get banned here are because they moved from spirited debate to personal attacks, which should not be acceptable anywhere.

sheepherder · 02-04-2014, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanint

Most people who get banned here are because they moved from spirited debate to personal attacks, which should not be acceptable anywhere.

I don't advocate personal attacks in the threads, but banning knowledgeable members (or some who think they are knowledgeable) depletes the knowledge pool...

Trolls should be banned. OTOH, there are members here who have answers to our questions but prefer not to answer unless annoyed...

Doesn't matter. It's not my forum, I don't get to choose. If I did, I would rule with an iron fist...

John Sabato · 02-04-2014, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheepherder

I would rule with an iron fist...

Wouldn't an Iron Fist make it difficult to properly hold a Luger?

I prefer to rule with a Moderator's mouse-click in the "banned" checkbox on their user profile!

In reality, you would be surprised how many people have actually been banned since the forum started ...
Only 59 have been banned, out of 11,291 registered users... that is less than half of 1 percent.

You really have to push hard, or prove you are a total whackjob in your first couple of posts to get banned. Most who have violated the "rules" actually responded in a positive manner when warned... but 59 have not.

Not a bad record if I do say so myself.

Vlim · 02-04-2014, 04:22 PM

I can only confirm that you have to behave quite badly to be promoted to the status of a banned member. Knowledge, or lack of it, has nothing to do with being banned. Some people just cannot behave properly in a group or on a public forum and we have to protect the large majority who behave well. So, even when it means losing some amount of knowledge or insight, it is better to live peacefully without their input, than to live in the trenches with it.

cirelaw · 02-04-2014, 05:36 PM

All of you do a fabulous job daily. I could never and hope to never envision a day without! I would ask both the new and old to share your interests inquiries or just to introduce yourself and your own interests! Everyone brings a unique personal perspective. Feel free to ask questions you might have. The more the questions they more the answers. Sometimes a question is more important than the answer! I just noticed that I have over 3000 posts and I never run out of topics!! I thank all for the support~~Eric

sheepherder · 02-04-2014, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cirelaw

I just noticed that I have over 3000 posts and I never run out of topics!!

I agree with whoever said that we should shoot all the lawyers...

(It was Shakespeare in Henry VI...Except kill instead of shoot)

cirelaw · 02-04-2014, 06:50 PM

Usually their wives!!!

CJS57 · 02-05-2014, 08:18 AM

True! Luger knowledge has come a long way! But....... Going beyond that fact, the whole "Job One" in Luger collecting is determining the originality of the finish. And that is still a long, long way from a science! In fact I know of know of no way to "prove" a certain Luger is in fact original! The closest I can think of is that a majority of at least a half dozen long time collectors (Not Dealers!) have examined the gun "hands on" and agree it is in fact original. But of course every advanced Luger collector is sure his own guns are original, that is why he acquired them!

singleshotman · 02-05-2014, 11:15 AM

I.m not a collector, just a shooter, and I will tell you why I bought a 30 cal commercial 1920 Luger. My grandfather fought in the early stages of the Mexican Revolution in 1911( i have photos of the Revolution) .At the time he bought a American Eagle Luger in 7,65mm. he carried it for years. Before he died he gave it to his son George, who gave it to my cousin. I tried for years to buy it because my cousin does not shoot, cares nothing for guns and may let it rust away. I finally gave up and bought the nearest thing to it, I could not afford a AE Luger on SS. Have not got around to shooting it yet, but I will I hope.

02-01-2014, 03:21 PM	#1
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,625 Thanks: 3,165 Thanked 2,544 Times in 949 Posts	Luger Knowledge I was thinking today (dangerous) about how far we have come in luger knowledge. When I started collecting the "bible" was Fred Datig's "The Luger Pistol". Finally here were all the answers. Oh Boy. Each author has further advanced our interest and knowledge. Errors sure but it was a documented start. We will continue to find errors in the current books. And that's all right; we are learning. We hear comments about how wrong some earlier books were. But realizing it's incorrect shows our advancement. We have obtained this knowledge by people studying, asking questions, countless hours spent reading and looking at lugers, and using earlier authors' work. The internet has done much for our hobby. The rapid daily exchange of information is amazing. So a big thank you to all the past, present and future authors, collectors worldwide ,forum owners/ moderators , and the willingness to share. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

02-01-2014, 04:35 PM	#2
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,005 Thanks: 1,087 Thanked 5,139 Times in 1,689 Posts	Very well said Bill. To paraphrase something I once heard...we can see farther only because we stand on the shoulders of those who have gone before. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

02-01-2014, 10:59 PM	#4
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,182 Thanks: 1,400 Thanked 4,441 Times in 2,329 Posts	Perhaps we should be more tolerant of those members we find rude, arrogant, and inflexible...They force us to investigate more thoroughly, and go that little bit extra to validate or refute their claims... You all know of whom I speak... __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter... Last edited by sheepherder; 02-01-2014 at 10:59 PM. Reason: bad grammar

02-04-2014, 11:41 AM	#9
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,182 Thanks: 1,400 Thanked 4,441 Times in 2,329 Posts	When I was quite young, I would be interested in doing some kind of project...And I would ask my dad how to do it...he would tell me that it couldn't be done...I would look at what I wanted to do and wonder why it couldn't be done...And eventually I would figure out a way to do it...(And be annoyed at my dad as well)... I finally figured out that my dad was challenging me to figure it out myself...Instead of telling me how to do it... People who stir controversy and annoy us with their pompous self-centered opinions inspire and goad us to find a response...Sometimes it can be very beneficial to all concerned... Or...We could all be sheep and say "Yes, it's obvious there is no such thing as a Totenkopf/Spandau/Russian Contract Luger...Let's stop wasting time discussing/researching it and move on to more pleasant topics"... __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

02-01-2014, 10:20 PM	#3
CAP Black User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Fairmont, WV Right here in Mountaineer country and God's country Posts: 767 Thanks: 100 Thanked 168 Times in 96 Posts	The way the knowledge is shared is astounding!!!!! thank you Jack

02-04-2014, 03:26 AM	#5
MikeP User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: ILL Posts: 686 Thanks: 36 Thanked 452 Times in 198 Posts	When I joined the old forum about 1997 I thought I knew a thing or two. I had "fooled" with Lugers since the early 60s. Got corrected really quick. Books are good things, but shared knowledge and discussion beat all.

02-04-2014, 09:28 AM	#7
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	I agree. It takes quite a bit to get banned here. I'm always grateful at how gentlemanly you guys correct me when I stick my foot in it.

02-04-2014, 04:22 PM	#13
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,987 Times in 1,205 Posts	I can only confirm that you have to behave quite badly to be promoted to the status of a banned member. Knowledge, or lack of it, has nothing to do with being banned. Some people just cannot behave properly in a group or on a public forum and we have to protect the large majority who behave well. So, even when it means losing some amount of knowledge or insight, it is better to live peacefully without their input, than to live in the trenches with it.

02-04-2014, 05:36 PM	#14
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	All of you do a fabulous job daily. I could never and hope to never envision a day without! I would ask both the new and old to share your interests inquiries or just to introduce yourself and your own interests! Everyone brings a unique personal perspective. Feel free to ask questions you might have. The more the questions they more the answers. Sometimes a question is more important than the answer! I just noticed that I have over 3000 posts and I never run out of topics!! I thank all for the support~~Eric

02-04-2014, 06:50 PM	#16
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Usually their wives!!!

02-05-2014, 08:18 AM	#17
CJS57 User Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 224 Thanks: 0 Thanked 81 Times in 41 Posts	True! Luger knowledge has come a long way! But....... Going beyond that fact, the whole "Job One" in Luger collecting is determining the originality of the finish. And that is still a long, long way from a science! In fact I know of know of no way to "prove" a certain Luger is in fact original! The closest I can think of is that a majority of at least a half dozen long time collectors (Not Dealers!) have examined the gun "hands on" and agree it is in fact original. But of course every advanced Luger collector is sure his own guns are original, that is why he acquired them!

02-05-2014, 11:15 AM	#18
singleshotman User Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 44 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 6 Posts	I.m not a collector, just a shooter, and I will tell you why I bought a 30 cal commercial 1920 Luger. My grandfather fought in the early stages of the Mexican Revolution in 1911( i have photos of the Revolution) .At the time he bought a American Eagle Luger in 7,65mm. he carried it for years. Before he died he gave it to his son George, who gave it to my cousin. I tried for years to buy it because my cousin does not shoot, cares nothing for guns and may let it rust away. I finally gave up and bought the nearest thing to it, I could not afford a AE Luger on SS. Have not got around to shooting it yet, but I will I hope.