My 1942 byf...barrel query...

palisadesjim · 02-03-2014, 09:56 PM

I am pleased to join this forum. Thank you. Residing in SoCal. I purchased a 1942 byf P-08 about 30 years ago...as I recall, the gun dealer (in Ohio) stated that it was "Arsenal Refinished." It's in very nice condition...the "Gesichert" is still white, all the numbers clear.
It has all-matching numbers, though the two mags are likely not original as the Luger's serial number has been stamped in both, each mag having a "1" and "2" stamped above the serial number. No other proofs whatsoever.
My principle question is about the BARREL It does not have the original Eagle on the right-rear, but a stamp like the ones in the accompanying proof example I have attached...located on the BOTTOM rear of the barrel. They are East German proofs from what I have surmised , and the letter below the crest is an "N". This code follows: "E.C.C.S.A PEN SA"
It looks just like a Luger barrel, but upon close inspection with a magnifying glass, it's obvious it is not the original barrel.

Just wondering if my suspicions are correct..? An East German refurb with a new barrel and new mags..? And the accompanying proof chart indicates early 1950's. (Actually...1950) The chart says.."E. German/Suhl" I suppose they were the refurbisher, maybe this Luger was used in East Germany...police..?

Would like to hear some opinion on this...there do not appear to be any other marks I'd consider import markings. Thank you. jstlekas@aol.com

alanint · 02-04-2014, 05:02 AM

You more than likely have what collectors refer to as a "VoPo" Luger, or an East German "Volks Polizei" pistol. The two magazines were force matched to the pistol at the time it was refurbished. The barrel was changed out due to wear or damage.
The E.C.C.S.A PEN SA is the US importer's mark for a company in Pennsylvania. There is a "U" in front of that "SA", if you look closely.

sheepherder · 02-04-2014, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanint

The E.C.C.S.A PEN SA is the US importer's mark for a company in Pennsylvania.

Cross Roads Gun Shop, Pennsauken, New Jersey, IIRC...

Where did you find that nice proof chart??? All the proofs printed so professionally...I wouldn't mind hanging a chart like that in my shop...

Crown over N is a commercial proof, again IIRC...VoPo's could have re-barreled it with a commercial barrel...

John Sabato · 02-04-2014, 08:59 AM

Minor correction to all the good info Doug (alanint) has provided... "E.C.C.S.A PEN SA"
was not in Pennsylvania... the ECCSA was the initials for the company name, which I no longer remember, but I have seen reported on other forums that it was the importer name for the Cross Roads Gun Shop.

The PEN SA portion of the stamp (the space between PEN and SA was probably unintentional during the stamping process)... was a shortened version of PENNSAUKEN, NJ... the actual location for the importer.

Hmmm, I guess Rich got his post in while I was typing mine...

alanint · 02-04-2014, 09:22 AM

Thanks, Guys! I'm always amazed at what members know here!

lugersrkewl · 02-04-2014, 11:13 AM

sheep herder "Where did you find that nice proof chart??? All the proofs printed so professionally...I wouldn't mind hanging a chart like that in my shop"

standard directory of proof marks 18.00 amazon...

John Sabato · 02-04-2014, 11:30 AM

Not sure why, but the chart shown is available for download from PIA.

http://www.phoenixinvestmentarms.com...proofmarks.pdf

02-03-2014, 09:56 PM	#1
palisadesjim New User Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 1 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	My 1942 byf...barrel query... I am pleased to join this forum. Thank you. Residing in SoCal. I purchased a 1942 byf P-08 about 30 years ago...as I recall, the gun dealer (in Ohio) stated that it was "Arsenal Refinished." It's in very nice condition...the "Gesichert" is still white, all the numbers clear. It has all-matching numbers, though the two mags are likely not original as the Luger's serial number has been stamped in both, each mag having a "1" and "2" stamped above the serial number. No other proofs whatsoever. My principle question is about the BARREL It does not have the original Eagle on the right-rear, but a stamp like the ones in the accompanying proof example I have attached...located on the BOTTOM rear of the barrel. They are East German proofs from what I have surmised , and the letter below the crest is an "N". This code follows: "E.C.C.S.A PEN SA" It looks just like a Luger barrel, but upon close inspection with a magnifying glass, it's obvious it is not the original barrel. Just wondering if my suspicions are correct..? An East German refurb with a new barrel and new mags..? And the accompanying proof chart indicates early 1950's. (Actually...1950) The chart says.."E. German/Suhl" I suppose they were the refurbisher, maybe this Luger was used in East Germany...police..? Would like to hear some opinion on this...there do not appear to be any other marks I'd consider import markings. Thank you. jstlekas@aol.com Attached Thumbnails

02-04-2014, 08:59 AM	#4
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,152 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Minor correction to all the good info Doug (alanint) has provided... "E.C.C.S.A PEN SA" was not in Pennsylvania... the ECCSA was the initials for the company name, which I no longer remember, but I have seen reported on other forums that it was the importer name for the Cross Roads Gun Shop. The PEN SA portion of the stamp (the space between PEN and SA was probably unintentional during the stamping process)... was a shortened version of PENNSAUKEN, NJ... the actual location for the importer. Hmmm, I guess Rich got his post in while I was typing mine... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

02-04-2014, 11:30 AM	#7
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,152 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Not sure why, but the chart shown is available for download from PIA. http://www.phoenixinvestmentarms.com...proofmarks.pdf __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

02-04-2014, 05:02 AM	#2
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	You more than likely have what collectors refer to as a "VoPo" Luger, or an East German "Volks Polizei" pistol. The two magazines were force matched to the pistol at the time it was refurbished. The barrel was changed out due to wear or damage. The E.C.C.S.A PEN SA is the US importer's mark for a company in Pennsylvania. There is a "U" in front of that "SA", if you look closely.

02-04-2014, 09:22 AM	#5
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Thanks, Guys! I'm always amazed at what members know here!

02-04-2014, 11:13 AM	#6
lugersrkewl Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Ussr Posts: 425 Thanks: 198 Thanked 75 Times in 58 Posts	sheep herder "Where did you find that nice proof chart??? All the proofs printed so professionally...I wouldn't mind hanging a chart like that in my shop" standard directory of proof marks 18.00 amazon...