1917 Navy? - Page 2

DavidJayUden · 12-03-2013, 04:12 PM

Maybe have a nearby forum member go check it out in person? Or how about sending the funds directly to his FFL dealer? Does he have a seller history on an auction site that you can follow up on? Good luck and keep us posted.
dju

ithacaartist · 12-03-2013, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

Maybe have a nearby forum member go check it out in person? ...
dju

That's what I was thinking, but would have to figure out in which of 4 different states associated with the listings (s)he's actually located.

Well, I was ridin' real high for a while..enjoyed that. Maybe I'll have some more fun reporting him. In the meantine...bummer!

ithacaartist · 12-03-2013, 04:48 PM

What the hey, George, salt in my wound! http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=31714

It's comforting to know there are real ones out there. Yours even has a stock lug and lanyard loop!

lugersrkewl · 12-03-2013, 05:12 PM

the best way to have fun with these turkeys is to keep them in the dark about how you knwo its a scam.....or they will just keep getting better. A visit to the address on the money order by the police may be a giggle. Near as I can figure he has the funds sent to a dead address wrong name , right address, then an accomplice mails him the funds....or He has access to the original address mail box.

gunbugs · 12-03-2013, 06:48 PM

As mentioned on other forums, have him take a photo of the item with your e-mail address written on a piece of paper placed on top of the item. If he can not do that, he does not actually have the item. Also, google his/her address, see if it is a vacant lot or run down apt building. Google the e-mail address and see if it is associated with any other scams. Ask if a friend who is law enforcement in their town can stop by and look at it for you. Any and all these are a good start. If it smells "fishy" hold on to your wallet. Don't feed the scammers. Insisting that the payment be sent with "tracking" is a red flag. But, if you are sure it is a scam, then it can be fun to play with them.

Ben M. · 12-03-2013, 09:16 PM

aw, come on. send yur money. cant you see the fellow needs money to get his nails done?

mystical_tutor · 12-04-2013, 10:23 AM

Dave;

If he is asking for payment WITH tracking that is in your best interest. You can co that with UPS/FedEx or even the USPS (certified letter etc. with sig required). That will prove that he received it. I suggest a Bank Draft for payment (in case he backs at the escrow) as he will have to provide identification to cash it (unless he deposits it in his account).
All in all that can be used as evidence that he received the payment and collected the money. Whatever you do, don't send payment by Western Union or a similar service.

Ah yes, Fun. What some card collectors do in cases of very expensive Magic cards is require a picture of the owner (seller) holding the card/sealed box of rare cards/whatever.

Gary

gunbugs · 12-04-2013, 08:17 PM

If it seems too good to be true...... It probably IS too good to be true. Scam. Scam. Scam. But, hey, its your money..... Check the Sturm boards for instructions on SCAMMERS. Good Luck!

gunbugs · 12-04-2013, 08:29 PM

The "advantage" to tracking is he knows when the delivery is going to be made to the "shill" address and he can park outside and wait for the mailman to come down the street and be standing at the address to receive the mail before the actual resident of that address gets their mail. He scoops the check/MO, and leaves. I'd wait all day and sit in a car for 700 bucks, no problem. Without "tracking" he won't know when it will show up, and the person who actually lives at the address will most likely end up with your funds. They won't know why they have your check/MO, and very well may be honest people.

mystical_tutor · 12-04-2013, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunbugs

The "advantage" to tracking is he knows when the delivery is going to be made to the "shill" address and he can park outside and wait for the mailman to come down the street and be standing at the address to receive the mail before the actual resident of that address gets their mail. He scoops the check/MO, and leaves.

That is interesting and have never thought of it. In card collecting we highly advocate tracking in both directions but I have not heard of this happening in the last few years I have been doing it.
Hope no one starts thinking that way in these circles.

Gary

ithacaartist · 12-06-2013, 08:05 PM

Well, folks, remember the old adage about what seems too good to be true probably is?

The listing, out of the duplicates, that is the "donor"-- by the actual owner-- from which the two phonies were composed, is the one that lists the pistol for $2700. In a phone call to my FFL dealer to see just what kind of FFL he received by email from the other end, he told me it was phony. He's conscientious enough to look up the numbers on the FFLs he receives, to cross-check the other info on the form. This one had been altered to list an address in Indianapolis--changed from the actual holder's address in Kentucky.

I've reported the cheap listings on the other two sites as scams after corresponding with the actual gun owner. And I also forwarded all correspondence between me and the "seller" to an agent in the Syracuse office of the BATFE, along with a copy of the altered license, and the email between me and the real owner.

The agent did not hold out much hope for finding out how this case works out. Once the complaint is accepted, it will start an investigation--checking URLs for the emails sent, etc. She said it may take a couple months for this to happen, then maybe a couple more YEARS to complete the investigation and go after the scumbags, if they decide to. Not very satisfying, but at least the agent said I'd been very thorough in what I'd submitted.

In the meantime, I'll spend any spare moments baiting these crooks. Right now they're waiting for tracking info for a money order which will never arrive. I'll be having all sorts of "trouble" getting to the bank, then the P.O., then I might "lose the receipt" to scan or "get the numbers on it wrong"!! I'll enjoy the creative challenge and am open suggestions as to what to do to give 'em a really hard time for as looooong as I can.

Thanks for all the pointers and suggestions as to how I can protect my money! I don't know if there's a sticky about the finer points of detecting and avoiding gun scams, but I'll try to compile one from the examples provided by this deal and submit it. The contribution by Skye's research was the last straw in sniffing this out; thanks a million!

David Parker

lugersrkewl · 12-06-2013, 08:39 PM

Anytime thats why we are here right?

DavidJayUden · 12-06-2013, 11:14 PM

David:
I'm surprised that the BATF doesn't take these matters more seriously. Heaven forbid if an FFL dealer forgets to dot the "i"on a 4473. I understand that they are spread pretty thin, but like I said, just disappointed. Thought they'd be all over fictitious FFL's.
dju

gunbugs · 12-07-2013, 02:07 AM

Simple. All they have to do is arrive dressed as a "company courier" for "World Express" which you have "used" to send your "certified funds". When they reach out to collect the envelope, and sign for receipt, the nice delivery driver identifies himself as an ATF or FBI agent, and starts reading them their rights, just after cuffing them. But that would be too easy, so it will never happen..... Just glad you didn't lose any money to the scammers. Be careful out there.

gunbugs · 12-07-2013, 02:08 AM

Have you had a chance to google the faked address and take a look at the "dropoff"?

ithacaartist · 12-07-2013, 03:04 AM

David,

I share the disappointment. Do priorities of the bureau really run this way? Incredible!

Doug,

Yes, street view of a dumpy house. Google the woman's name...check out the Facebook page that comes up. Brrr!
NAME--Amber Planck
ADDRESS--928 Minnesota St Indianapolis Indiana 46203

Just got an email from her, wants me to be sure to get it sent tomorrow. He-heh I think I'll offer to drive out tomorrow with the cash and do the exchange ftf at a dealer's.

alanint · 12-07-2013, 06:36 AM

Always beware of deals just before the Holidays! A MG dealer friend told me about an almost perfect, forged Form 4 he just received from someone trying to sell him a Colt 1921 Thompson, (retail value, about $50k).
The times are desperate for some and people are willing to commit felonies of this type, since the prosecution rate is low.

Ben M. · 12-07-2013, 12:02 PM

why not send them a phony MO. i am sure you can find an image in the web.

ithacaartist · 12-07-2013, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben M.

why not send them a phony MO. i am sure you can find an image in the web.

I'd thought of that. If I bought one for the $860, took it home and scanned it, then returned to the P.O. and redeemed it myself, I'd only be out the fee for the order--not much.

I told 'em this morning that I couldn't start the truck to make it to the bank by noon, stalling until at least Monday. It will be next week sometime when they'd be led to believe that a money order was purchased. I may scan an old receipt and doctor the image to be sufficiently leading and confusing, as I'm not going to bother with actually buying one.

But before that, I'll tease 'em with the idea that I'm driving out there for a face-to-face transaction...or maybe that I have a friend there who is going to stop by and check it out. I might get a phone number out of them, which could help with further shenanigans.

gunbugs · 12-07-2013, 01:56 PM

Tell em you're going to send them the money via western union. Then they will have to go to the office and stand around. That'll waste a day of their life, and keep them away from the computer. Only after you lead them on for several days on the money order. Be careful about forging or "counterfeiting" any money orders. They will never get in trouble, but with our luck, the feds will be knocking on our door the next day.

12-03-2013, 04:48 PM	#23
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,376 Thanks: 7,448 Thanked 2,613 Times in 1,380 Posts	What the hey, George, salt in my wound! http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=31714 It's comforting to know there are real ones out there. Yours even has a stock lug and lanyard loop! __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

12-03-2013, 06:48 PM	#25
gunbugs Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Fairbanks, Alaska. Home of the best moose. Posts: 672 Thanks: 371 Thanked 1,202 Times in 407 Posts	As mentioned on other forums, have him take a photo of the item with your e-mail address written on a piece of paper placed on top of the item. If he can not do that, he does not actually have the item. Also, google his/her address, see if it is a vacant lot or run down apt building. Google the e-mail address and see if it is associated with any other scams. Ask if a friend who is law enforcement in their town can stop by and look at it for you. Any and all these are a good start. If it smells "fishy" hold on to your wallet. Don't feed the scammers. Insisting that the payment be sent with "tracking" is a red flag. But, if you are sure it is a scam, then it can be fun to play with them. Last edited by gunbugs; 12-04-2013 at 08:15 PM.

12-04-2013, 08:17 PM	#28
gunbugs Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Fairbanks, Alaska. Home of the best moose. Posts: 672 Thanks: 371 Thanked 1,202 Times in 407 Posts	Its probably a SCAM If it seems too good to be true...... It probably IS too good to be true. Scam. Scam. Scam. But, hey, its your money..... Check the Sturm boards for instructions on SCAMMERS. Good Luck!

12-06-2013, 08:05 PM	#31
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,376 Thanks: 7,448 Thanked 2,613 Times in 1,380 Posts	Well, folks, remember the old adage about what seems too good to be true probably is? The listing, out of the duplicates, that is the "donor"-- by the actual owner-- from which the two phonies were composed, is the one that lists the pistol for $2700. In a phone call to my FFL dealer to see just what kind of FFL he received by email from the other end, he told me it was phony. He's conscientious enough to look up the numbers on the FFLs he receives, to cross-check the other info on the form. This one had been altered to list an address in Indianapolis--changed from the actual holder's address in Kentucky. I've reported the cheap listings on the other two sites as scams after corresponding with the actual gun owner. And I also forwarded all correspondence between me and the "seller" to an agent in the Syracuse office of the BATFE, along with a copy of the altered license, and the email between me and the real owner. The agent did not hold out much hope for finding out how this case works out. Once the complaint is accepted, it will start an investigation--checking URLs for the emails sent, etc. She said it may take a couple months for this to happen, then maybe a couple more YEARS to complete the investigation and go after the scumbags, if they decide to. Not very satisfying, but at least the agent said I'd been very thorough in what I'd submitted. In the meantime, I'll spend any spare moments baiting these crooks. Right now they're waiting for tracking info for a money order which will never arrive. I'll be having all sorts of "trouble" getting to the bank, then the P.O., then I might "lose the receipt" to scan or "get the numbers on it wrong"!! I'll enjoy the creative challenge and am open suggestions as to what to do to give 'em a really hard time for as looooong as I can. Thanks for all the pointers and suggestions as to how I can protect my money! I don't know if there's a sticky about the finer points of detecting and avoiding gun scams, but I'll try to compile one from the examples provided by this deal and submit it. The contribution by Skye's research was the last straw in sniffing this out; thanks a million! David Parker __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

12-07-2013, 03:04 AM	#36
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,376 Thanks: 7,448 Thanked 2,613 Times in 1,380 Posts	David, I share the disappointment. Do priorities of the bureau really run this way? Incredible! Doug, Yes, street view of a dumpy house. Google the woman's name...check out the Facebook page that comes up. Brrr! NAME--Amber Planck ADDRESS--928 Minnesota St Indianapolis Indiana 46203 Just got an email from her, wants me to be sure to get it sent tomorrow. He-heh I think I'll offer to drive out tomorrow with the cash and do the exchange ftf at a dealer's. __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

12-03-2013, 04:12 PM	#21
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Maybe have a nearby forum member go check it out in person? Or how about sending the funds directly to his FFL dealer? Does he have a seller history on an auction site that you can follow up on? Good luck and keep us posted. dju

12-03-2013, 05:12 PM	#24
lugersrkewl Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Ussr Posts: 425 Thanks: 198 Thanked 75 Times in 58 Posts	the best way to have fun with these turkeys is to keep them in the dark about how you knwo its a scam.....or they will just keep getting better. A visit to the address on the money order by the police may be a giggle. Near as I can figure he has the funds sent to a dead address wrong name , right address, then an accomplice mails him the funds....or He has access to the original address mail box.

12-03-2013, 09:16 PM	#26
Ben M. User Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Retired to Naples, FL. Posts: 499 Thanks: 96 Thanked 146 Times in 91 Posts	aw, come on. send yur money. cant you see the fellow needs money to get his nails done?

12-04-2013, 10:23 AM	#27
mystical_tutor User Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 230 Thanks: 32 Thanked 39 Times in 25 Posts	Dave; If he is asking for payment WITH tracking that is in your best interest. You can co that with UPS/FedEx or even the USPS (certified letter etc. with sig required). That will prove that he received it. I suggest a Bank Draft for payment (in case he backs at the escrow) as he will have to provide identification to cash it (unless he deposits it in his account). All in all that can be used as evidence that he received the payment and collected the money. Whatever you do, don't send payment by Western Union or a similar service. Ah yes, Fun. What some card collectors do in cases of very expensive Magic cards is require a picture of the owner (seller) holding the card/sealed box of rare cards/whatever. Gary

12-04-2013, 08:29 PM	#29
gunbugs Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Fairbanks, Alaska. Home of the best moose. Posts: 672 Thanks: 371 Thanked 1,202 Times in 407 Posts	The "advantage" to tracking is he knows when the delivery is going to be made to the "shill" address and he can park outside and wait for the mailman to come down the street and be standing at the address to receive the mail before the actual resident of that address gets their mail. He scoops the check/MO, and leaves. I'd wait all day and sit in a car for 700 bucks, no problem. Without "tracking" he won't know when it will show up, and the person who actually lives at the address will most likely end up with your funds. They won't know why they have your check/MO, and very well may be honest people.

12-06-2013, 08:39 PM	#32
lugersrkewl Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Ussr Posts: 425 Thanks: 198 Thanked 75 Times in 58 Posts	Anytime thats why we are here right?

12-06-2013, 11:14 PM	#33
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	David: I'm surprised that the BATF doesn't take these matters more seriously. Heaven forbid if an FFL dealer forgets to dot the "i"on a 4473. I understand that they are spread pretty thin, but like I said, just disappointed. Thought they'd be all over fictitious FFL's. dju

12-07-2013, 02:07 AM	#34
gunbugs Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Fairbanks, Alaska. Home of the best moose. Posts: 672 Thanks: 371 Thanked 1,202 Times in 407 Posts	Simple. All they have to do is arrive dressed as a "company courier" for "World Express" which you have "used" to send your "certified funds". When they reach out to collect the envelope, and sign for receipt, the nice delivery driver identifies himself as an ATF or FBI agent, and starts reading them their rights, just after cuffing them. But that would be too easy, so it will never happen..... Just glad you didn't lose any money to the scammers. Be careful out there.

12-07-2013, 02:08 AM	#35
gunbugs Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Fairbanks, Alaska. Home of the best moose. Posts: 672 Thanks: 371 Thanked 1,202 Times in 407 Posts	Have you had a chance to google the faked address and take a look at the "dropoff"?

12-07-2013, 06:36 AM	#37
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	Always beware of deals just before the Holidays! A MG dealer friend told me about an almost perfect, forged Form 4 he just received from someone trying to sell him a Colt 1921 Thompson, (retail value, about $50k). The times are desperate for some and people are willing to commit felonies of this type, since the prosecution rate is low.

12-07-2013, 12:02 PM	#38
Ben M. User Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Retired to Naples, FL. Posts: 499 Thanks: 96 Thanked 146 Times in 91 Posts	why not send them a phony MO. i am sure you can find an image in the web.

12-07-2013, 01:56 PM	#40
gunbugs Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Fairbanks, Alaska. Home of the best moose. Posts: 672 Thanks: 371 Thanked 1,202 Times in 407 Posts	Tell em you're going to send them the money via western union. Then they will have to go to the office and stand around. That'll waste a day of their life, and keep them away from the computer. Only after you lead them on for several days on the money order. Be careful about forging or "counterfeiting" any money orders. They will never get in trouble, but with our luck, the feds will be knocking on our door the next day.