Original grips

[Tony Min]

So the easiest way to spot non original grips is that the checkering doesn't go all the way to the edge. They are a little fat.
I have seen two Lugers now where the checkering didn't go quite all the way yet they were numbered correct original gips.
One was a BYF and one an Erfurt.
My DWM grips are checkered all the way to the edge.
What gives?

[Ron Wood]

What gives is that in 100 years of use and handling the grips are subject to different wear patterns. The checkering is not the "easiest" way or the most accurate way to spot non original grips. Most original grips that have seen service use will exhibit varying degrees of wear. So, do not discount a pair of grips that do not have checkering all the way to the edge. If you "have seen two Lugers now where the checkering didn't go quite all the way yet they were numbered correct original gips", then chances are that they are indeed original grips.

[Tony Min]

That is what I figured. But these were not wear patterns. They were areas on the edges that were square like repro grips. I was wondering if anyone else had grips like that. Not as thick as repros, but similar.

[Tony Min]

I didn't know there were so few Lugers with grips....

[Ron Wood]

Originally Posted by Tony Min

I didn't know there were so few Lugers with grips....

I'm sorry, I don't understand your comment. All Lugers have grips...what specifically are you referrint to?

[Tony Min]

Ron,
I thank you for your original comment.
My last post was facetious as to the number of views and the lack of posts.

[ithacaartist]

Original grips were checkered by hand, right? Considering the human factor, then each grip is unique, and no two could be the exactly same. I think "all the way to the edge" is a relative term, and original, hand-checkered grips might be better described as being done "very close to the edge", with some variation in just how close, due to their being hand done.

I've fiddled around with checkering for about a year, and if the pattern is complete in its depth literally all the way to it, the edge will look and feel serrated.

I think lots of the machine-checkered repro grips display more of the edge than originals due to the mechanized process. Most of the pattern will be more precise in spacing and depth than could ever be done by hand (well, they were done by a machine) however, the pattern tends to peter out sooner, leaving more of the edge than hand work. This is due to what's necessary to cut an even pattern. The lines should be straight, and the cutter needs to ride totally square to the surface to result in "diamonds" that are symmetrical. There's a Dremel-like system for use in hand checkering on which the cutting head swivels to accomplish this. Most machine checkering setups will do a flat surface just fine, but begin to leave distorted work as the surface departs from flat or goes over a curved edge.

The worst machine checkered grips I own are on a 90's Aimco-made stainless Luger. Their pattern quits at least 3/16" from the edge, at which point it is already heavily distorted by the portion of rounded material it does attempt to check. Interestingly, if viewed straight on from above, it looks regular; but if you examine it from the side, it's evident how distorted the diamonds are.

The cheesiest looking grips I own are original to the Erma KGP68A, which is a down-scaled, Luger look-alike, blowback system pistol. These grips are totally flat across their faces, and either curved smooth, or multiple-bordered edges, either of which was done by a shaper. The checkering pattern on these is precise, but it's only applied to the flat face--which requires only one angle of approach when being cut.

I've seen grips offered that are purported to be laser cut. This process is unfamiliar to me, but it just might be something that could capture the best of both worlds, yielding a pattern that is regular and complete.

As mentioned, my experience in this realm is pretty short and recent. I'm hoping the experts on the forum will back up my observations and conclusions--or perhaps shed more light on the subject. I do, however, know that Hugh Clark is a "Pele" of this artistic process and really knows what he's doing or talking about, and a bunch of others have experience in observing the myriad manifestations of original grips that far outstrips mine.

[Tony Min]

That makes a lot of sense. I didn't even realize they did it by hand. I wonder what kind of a tool they used. Surely not a chisel and carve each groove?
I helped by BIL buy a BYF 41 a couple of weeks ago and since there was some square edges showing I thought the grips might be repros. Even though they had a lot of age. We were happily surprised they were numbered to the gun when he disassembled it after picking it up yesterday.
My only real set of grips I have literally go all the way to the edge.
Thanks for your post.

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by Tony Min

... I didn't even realize they did it by hand. I wonder what kind of a tool they used. Surely not a chisel and carve each groove?...

Special tools are required, often hand made by the purists. I think most involved use Dem-Bart brand tools. Google 'em up to learn more specifics. I followed a link in somebody's post a while ago and saw a short film clip of a technician doing this work at the Mauser factory, and the tool he was using cut what looked like around six or seven lines at once. And man! he was fast!

Originally Posted by Tony Min

...a BYF 41 a couple of weeks ago and since there was some square edges showing I thought the grips might be repros...

Good to keep in mind that hand work is time-consuming, and susceptible to being rushed or slightly deficient in QC compared to the norm during all-out production for war!

p.s. Avoid frustration by applying a bit of patience when expecting answers to questions. Not everyone on the forum sits by the workstation 24/7 "drooling Lugers"--as I've seen it described. Within a day or two, you'll find most of the comments have arrived.

[Tony Min]

These are my grips. They are original though not original to this gun. They fit nice though.

[ithacaartist]

Yes, they do look great. Notice the area that the web between your thumb and forefinger would wrap around (This concave curve is a really demanding b____ to do.). The lines do not look straight from this angle; however, if you sight down the lines or view them totally from the side, they do!

Notice also how some of the lines are not cut, or not cut as deeply as they might have been. This is exactly what you should be seeing when looking at original, hand-checkered work. I suppose custom or presentation examples would be more precise, as the pre-WWi ones and slightly later commercials tend to be.

[John Sabato]

Check Brownells catalog:

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-to...-prod6799.aspx

[Geo99]

Tony,

Good find.
The fit around the 'concave curve' area that David refered to is not always that good.
The grip looks like it fits your gun better than some of my guns that still have their original numbered grips.

[Geo99]

Originally Posted by Tony Min

So the easiest way to spot non original grips is that the checkering doesn't go all the way to the edge. They are a little fat.

I have a 1913 Erfurt that has really thick grip panels. It''s the only Erfurt I have, so I don't know if it is a characteristic of the earlier Erfurts or if it is unique to that gun. The grips are squared off on the edges and also bulge out more in the middle than any DWM I've seen. They are numbered and original to the gun.

- Geo