Seized-up S/42

[mloula]

Hey all,

I am writing this because I have a Luger that has a lot of sentimental value to it, but it is seized up. the toggle works about halfway, until the receiver slides back on the frame. That part is where it is seized. (And I am able to see that there is no bullet in the chamber) This, I am positive, is due to rust. As far as I know, this hasn't been fired in decades. I would like to get this firing, and I understand that might include extensive cleaning/ possible replacement of parts. However, I was wondering what the best method would be for getting the receiver to slide so I can disassemble it. I have read that soaking it (after removing the grips of course) in Kano Kroil for a few days will do. Will this harm the finish on an antique firearm? I wanted some insight. Maybe someone here has had the same problem and fixed it somehow? Also, while I am posting, I know what all of the stampings mean on my gun except one. This is the "x" suffix. I know my luger was made in 1937 by Mauser (hence S/42), and has all matching numbers. (the barrel and magazine are also original matching). Other than the problem I have with it, it seems to be mechanically okay. The safety works great, it dry fires, and the rifling still seems to be fairly sharp. If anyone can help me with my questions, I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you!

-Matt

[mystical_tutor]

Have you had the grips off of it? I don't encourage taking the left grip off (the one on the safety lever side of the gun or you may experience the $1000 chip) but if you have not had them off you may want to remove the right side grip to see if there is something mechanically wrong with the main spring and mechanism. It would be rare but is an easy thing to check. I saw one one time where the lever that the spring compressor is attached to had "bound". Repair was rather straight forward.

Gary

[DavidJayUden]

Again confirm that the gun is empty. Remove the magazine.
If you can press the muzzle against a firm but lightly padded surface, the barrel assembly should all push back just a bit. At that point you can turn the takedown lever down, remove the side plate, and slide the entire upper off the grip frame. From there removing the toggle should be easier.
If you search YouTube, there are a lot of tutorials on disassembling the Luger. And at this point I'd say that disassembly and inspection is appropriate. And do not force anything.
dju

[lugerholsterrepair]

Matt..Welcome to the Forum! This, I am positive, is due to rust. Why? Can you see a great deal of rust somewhere?
David gives good advice..removing the top is relatively easy, even for a noviceOnce the top cannon is off the frame the toggle pin can be removed allowing the toggle/bolt to slide back & out. This will let you look closely at the insides.

I don't encourage taking the left grip off (the one on the safety lever side of the gun or you may experience the $1000 chip) Well..as long as you are a tad careful this left wooden grip should not present any problems. IF the chip happens it was likely broken during firing and just hung on like a loose tooth. I take out the magazine, stick a finger inside and gently push the backside up and away from the pistol frame. Just be gentle.

[mloula]

Everyone, Thank you for the prompt replies and the welcome! I do in fact know how to disassemble a Luger, my problem is more that I am unable to due to it being seized up. There is some pitting on the gun, and after taking the grips off, I can see some surface rust on the inside as well. The mainspring is in good shape, as well as the safety mechanism and everything else that I can see. I am 100 percent positive that this is a rust issue. I have tried many times to get this disassembled, but I have had no success yet. This is not at all a museum-quality gun, just something I would like to get to shooter-status; however, I am not dead-set on making this a shooter. If it turns out to be too dangerous or altering the weapon too much from its original state, It will look good next to my 1911 as nothing more than a antique mantelpiece. My real question, as stated in my original post, was whether or not there is some type of solvent/oil out there that is safe for antique firearms like this. Like I said though, I won't take any unnecessary risks if it just can't happen. I have owned many firearms, and have always practiced safe shooting. I have just never had an experience like this before, so I decided to consult the luger authorities. Thanks again for your help guys!

-Matt

[mloula]

I am very sorry, I just re-read everyone's posts. I might have miscommunicated what I meant. The toggle does work, but the receiver will not slide back on the frame. I believe the dovetails in the slide are rusted together. The toggle pulls upwards until the point where the receiver should pull back. This is where is won't go any further. Sorry for the miscommunication folks, I hope I said it in the correct terms this time.

-Matt

[DavidJayUden]

Grips off, drop the entire thing into a solvent tank. Take it out each day and press back on the barrel until it moves just a smidge, then put it back into the tank. Rinse and repeat...
dju

[lugerholsterrepair]

Matt..The frame rails could indeed be rust welded together but I have to wonder. I have taken apart 2 different rust balls. And I MEAN pistols you would think would be beyond salvage. I had to soak them in Kroil and hammer them apart.
Oddly while the outsides were horribly rusted the insides were not!

To answer your question..any good penetrating oil should do the trick. I used Kroil but I never thought it was all that great. No general purpose lubricant will affect the bluing or straw if there is any. In fact a lot of oil and 0000 steel wool will remove light rust without hurting it either.

Just let er soak untill it begins to wiggle. Patience helps. You want to be sure the takedown lever is in the proper position.
I wouldn't hesitate to tap lightly here and there with a plastic or rawhide mallet. Tapping sometimes is the catalyst to getting things broken loose.

From my experience though, I would look at something mechanical while it's soaking.

[mloula]

Thank you very much everyone, that answers my questions, and I will try to pick some solvent up this week. I will keep you guys updated on how it goes! Thanks!

-Matt

[lugerholsterrepair]

Matt..there is a difference between "solvent" and a good penetrating oil....Good Luck!

[jamese]

Matt,
where do you live ? maybe someone here that lives close by can help you out

Jim

[mrerick]

Hi Matt,

Along with the soaking, sometimes mechanical vibration can help deal with seized rust.

First, ensure that there is no round in the chamber (use a pencil, and see how deep it will go. it should fit down to the breech face).

Use a leather or plastic faced hammer with a surface that is softer than the steel.

After the soak periods in penetrating oil, rap the hammer against broader well supported faces of the receiver and frame. You don't want to deform anything, just cause vibration that can help break free the iron oxide and improve oil prenetration.

[mloula]

Thank you everyone, I will try that as well. I live in Lansing, Mi btw.

[Tony Min]

Is the safety off?

[John Sabato]

Good catch Tony Min!

Mloula,

Make sure the safety lever is in the OFF position (UP)... If the safety is ON, the sear cannot move out to the left and this would prevent the toggle from raising if the sear is not already engaged with the firing pin.

[mloula]

The safety is in working condition, and it still does not work when it is off. Thank you for the idea though!

[sheepherder]

If you are dead set on soaking it, my $.02 is PB Blaster...I soaked six 11-year old spark plugs in aluminum heads with it and they all worked loose/out, with a lot of tightening/untightening...And no damage to the threads...

...But I also know from experience that if the PO re-assembled the cannon assembly and got the coupling link *behind* the recoil lever (instead of in front), then it will jam before you can pull the toggle assembly back...My 1900AE came this way, and it took a bit of wiggling, upside down poking, and blind luck to get it to where I could disassemble it...

...But surely yours is just simple rust and will slide out like an eel when it's been soaked for a while...

Edit: The area below shows a correctly assembled coupling link...If it was behind the recoil lever, it would jam...

(I can see a lot of uses for those x-ray pics...)

[mloula]

Thank you very much for the idea. I just checked, and it is in its correct location. I will let you guys know what happens after the soak

[DavidJayUden]

Check it often and try to push the muzzle rearwards. Hopefully after it moves just a bit it will begin to free up rapidly.
dju