Take down lever (which way?)

[Tony Min]

So which way do I bend it?

[G.T.]

It is a fix.. but, I wouldn't advise it??... Not because it won't work, but may create other issues you then have to contend with... I have, in my private stash, a brand new, original, armorer's replacement hold open spring you can try?? When correct, the lever is almost impossible to install, as in, you'll know!! No reflection on the springs you have purchased, as most all that are available are removed from unknown used firearms... With mine, If it works, $25.00.. If not the problem, then it's free... Let me know.. best to you Tony, til..lat'r...GT

[mystical_tutor]

Tony, in the for what its worth department this company advertises that it has the springs, both repos and original.

http://www.e-sarcoinc.com/lugerp08.aspx?page=2

Before "bending" the sideplate I would suggest comparing it to another one to see if it looks out of line.

Like Zormpas, my social piece almost needs a tool to start it down, I assume to get it past the spring in the groove. I just figured that was because my hands are weeker than I'd like to admit any more.

Best of luck

Gary

[Tony Min]

Ok, so I got a new spring from G.T. it is a little bit oversized. I put it in and got the lever back in. Actually pretty easy with a little tap in the right place. Now it was so stiff the lever wouldn't close. So out it came again and a little bend from the pliers and back in.
PERFECT!
I can operate it with my fingers but it has just the right amount of resistance. I am happy. And no bending on the side plate.
We are going shooting tomorrow and my wife will actually come. Her first time shooting a gun.

[Tony Min]

I had one jamb out of about 80 rounds. The lever stayed put.
What a wonderful shooting pistol. It is now my favorite. My wife did her first ever shooting. Four of my pistols and one rifle and two of my BIL pistols and one rifle. Guess which was her fav?

[mystical_tutor]

Great report Tony! Sure glad your honey likes to shoot (first consideration) and that she likes the Luger. My wife sticks to her S&S m19. No cocking, no safety, just grab it and use it.

Did you get a newer mag or mag spring? If so and you still get jams where the new round is sticking straight up you may want to check that spring tension again.

My rule of thumb is that "if you can load a mag without a loading tool the spring is too soft" There certainly can be other factors but an original mag that has been left loaded for some time can be a bad shooting mag.

Keep up the fire.

Gary

[Tony Min]

Mec Gar mag with G.T. spring. I figure 1 out of 80 is about average?

[Geo99]

Tony,

I'm glad your Luger is finally working good now. Your wife is a first time ever shooter and she gets to fire a Luger? That's excellent - first time and she's in love (ha-ha)!

Don''t know what the GT spring does for you but my stock Mecgar mags get a FTF about every once every 2-3 full loaded mags. But best shooting mags I have are the old ones. Don't know why, they all look the same to me, but there must be minute differences in the feed lips or springs.

BTW, I've been reading some of your posts and I think you got a better deal than you realize.

-Geo

[Tony Min]

Originally Posted by Geo99

Tony,

I'm glad your Luger is finally working good now. Your wife is a first time ever shooter and she gets to fire a Luger? That's excellent - first time and she's in love (ha-ha)!

Don''t know what the GT spring does for you but my stock Mecgar mags get a FTF about every once every 2-3 full loaded mags. But best shooting mags I have are the old ones. Don't know why, they all look the same to me, but there must be minute differences in the feed lips or springs.

BTW, I've been reading some of your posts and I think you got a better deal than you realize.

-Geo

I agree about my deal. I paid retail but it is a wonderful piece and at today's prices I see people paying $800 for mismatched stuff. The grips takes mine down in value a little though the repros are decent. But I made a deal on this forum for a nice set. Hope they fit. All I need is my next paycheck.

[G.T.]

Hi Guys, malfunctions come in many sizes! Every shot, or every other shot...or one shot in a thousand... or, none! Every luger shooters dream.. The three main factors that affects Luger function in my mind are as follows, and in order of importance are.... Or at least in order of troubleshooting.. as in easiest first, 1st, Ammo! The luger is a ballet of balanced forces... Ammo is first, not to strong, not to light, Win white box just right... Also, OA length is important as well.... 2nd, Next is mainspring.. part of the ballet....at least start new and strong.... And 3rd, the dancer, the magazine... If you are having frequent malfunctions, it is probably one of these players.. if not so frequent, it can still be one of the three, but is most likely a smaller harder to find malfunction.. but, coming in at 4th at this point is the extractor, or weak extractor spring...More ammo will have to be found... and more ammo will have to go down range... and note the type and frequency... tuning & timing... ...and shooting, all great fun!!...I have a byf mis-match that has yet to malfunction in at least a thousand rounds!! ...best to all, til...lat'r....GT

[Tony Min]

I will see if it is a pattern. My BIL's brand new Kimber 1911 had one malfunction that day. My P38 none, my Sig none. My Ruger 22 none.
There is more I can do to my Luger. The mag has a little wiggle when fully engaged. It might have been a fluke.

[Geo99]

GT - thanks for the brief tutorial.
So I shouldn't be using my unknown reloads I bought off a friend?
I'll have to try some Win 115gr. I have been using S&B 115 FMJ.

I should probably know this, but what is OA length?

- Geo

[G.T.]

Hi Geo, reloads are fine... maybe even preferable...but only on working guns... they are not a good benchmark for troubleshooting... Not because they aren't perfect when made by some of the members.. but a very large percentage of us, like me, haven't the skillsets to make them so?? So we must rely on what's commercially available, that give us the best near original dimensions and performance, and most important, consistency... I think most WWB ammo measure 1.160" and that is very close to what is spec'ed... There are others here that can supply more info on that! I think the PMC ammo may be a near perfectly acceptable performance clone.. as is probably S & B, and maybe some others I'm not aware of... If you run 100 rounds thru with no issues.. you are on line for dependability!!! Maybe all mags should be matched to the guns when they perform flawlessly... seems to be a rare thing of beauty when they run like a Swiss watch.. gott'a love them!...... Best to all, til...lat'r....GT

[Arizona Slim]

Originally Posted by Geo99

GT - thanks for the brief tutorial.
So I shouldn't be using my unknown reloads I bought off a friend?
I'll have to try some Win 115gr. I have been using S&B 115 FMJ.

I should probably know this, but what is OA length?

- Geo

Hi Geo, when G.T. mentioned OA length he meant the Over All length.


Lon

[G.T.]

Hi Geo, yes, sorry about that I should have written OAL, over all length....very important....,,best to you, til..lat'r...GT

[mrerick]

Tony,

Glad you got the takedown lever tightened up with the spring that G.T. provided.

The Luger is a very interesting, and perhaps unique mechanism. As mentioned, it's design is very dependent upon correct balance of forces (including recoil against your grip) for proper functioning.

You will probably not encounter another firearm design and implementation that is so precision in nature. There is a reason that many parts on a military Luger pistol were numbered. Much of the precision was accomplished with hand fitting.

This is unlike more modern firearm designs. They have quite a bit more tolerance to slight irregularities. In fact, this ability to function with less precision in the mechanism is a significant advantage on the battlefield.

[mystical_tutor]

Is there a way to test/measure the recoil spring while in the gun? I have never known a good way to do that, thus I always start trouble shooting (depending on the way the malfunction has occoured) with the mag. It, for me, is the easiest thing to RO. Obviously if your toggle assembly is not going back into battery the mainspring pops to the top of the list.

If the mainspring is out of the gun is there a compression test that can tell you if it is stout enough?

Gary

[Tony Min]

I think you probably want the strongest possible spring that still allows the hold open to work properly. Too soft of a spring would allow the toggle to hit the back of the frame. Not a good thing. Also, once you find ammo that works, don't switch brands.
If you think about it. It is no wonder the Germans lost the war....
Not really true though. They made like a million P38's to replace the Luger. A way superior pistol and more dependable.
I like them both. But the Luger is my favorite. But I wouldn't want my life to depend on it.

[rhuff]

If my memory serves(that is always questionable), Brownell sells a tool that can measure the poundage of recoil/and ? other springs. Then you can compare your findings against what is correct for the gun.

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by mystical_tutor

Is there a way to test/measure the recoil spring while in the gun? I have never known a good way to do that, thus I always start trouble shooting (depending on the way the malfunction has occoured) with the mag. It, for me, is the easiest thing to RO. Obviously if your toggle assembly is not going back into battery the mainspring pops to the top of the list.

If the mainspring is out of the gun is there a compression test that can tell you if it is stout enough?

Gary

Gary,

If you search around the site, you'll find a thread that discusses this and there were a couple proposals and attempts to gather comparative measurements of the strengths of installed mainsprings. Most involve a simple scale and some way of connecting the acton to the scale. One way was to insert a wooden dowel down the barrel and measure what it takes to move the action while pressing the pistol down onto the scale with the dowel sticking out enough to be what is moved. The other way was to put the pistol into a padded vise, muzzle up, and measure what weight pull was necessary to pull the toggle back connecting the knobs to a fish scale with a cord--which would not m,ar the finish.

You'll be able, either way, to compare installed spring strengths using the data achieved. So, no need to invest in anything extra...

D.P.