Unitmark on DWM 1912

sej-gun · 09-13-2013, 11:07 AM

Hi
Can anyone tell me about this unit markings. It pages on a DWM 1912 (1920) serial number 1023 (ns) with sear safety, no Walther magazine safety

Reg Sej-gun

Don M · 09-13-2013, 10:30 PM

Hi Jes,

See item #5 on http://www.historywritinsteel.com/New_Insights.html.

Don M · 09-17-2013, 01:13 PM

Jes,

I am responding to your PM here to share this information with others who may be interested. Based partially on the marking you have presented, I am more convinced the position of the "reverse capital J" (subscripted or not) is just an artifact of the armorer's positioning of the die and not a deliberate variation of the marking.

If these markings are ever identified, the identity of the unit will have to fit the following evidence:
• The capture report for the P08 marked K.L.?.66. states it was captured by a U.S. soldier in Schorndorf, Bavaria, between Regensburg and Cham, in the spring of 1945.
• The recorded property numbers in these markings suggest this unit had about 150 members, about the size of a large police company (Hundertschaft). If so, this means that a rather high percentage of these pistols (almost 10%) has been recorded, all or most of which are now in the U.S. This is consistent with a unit location in an American-captured and/or -occupied area such as Bavaria.
• Several are complete or nearly complete rigs suggesting they were taken directly from the owners rather than obtained from a stockpile of captured weapons. Many postwar photos show that pistols and holsters usually were separated in such stockpiles.
• The P08s have many common characteristics suggesting they were all issued at the same time from the same source. All are Imperial-era military pistols with 1920 government (probably police) property stamps. They all are reported as having been fitted with Schiwy safeties. At least three apparently were reworked in the late 1930s by the government armory at Spandau (E/Su25 stamps on the barrels).

Where is the gun you presented located? Europe or the US? Does the barrel have a E/Su25 stamp on the barrel?

Don M · 09-17-2013, 01:16 PM

Jes,

I have responded to your PM on the forum to share the information with others. I and my family are well and I hope you can say the same. My project to build a model railroad with my grandson in California has stalled somewhat. He is now 15 and his interests have turned to sports and girls. Perhaps he will pick it up again later.

sej-gun · 09-19-2013, 10:48 AM

Hi Don
Many thanks for your detailed explanation, actually exciting if it ever gets cleared up what K.L.j. means. This P.08 is in the possession of a collector here in Northern Europe
And it has no E/SU25 marking. And about model railroad, I think the interest will probably return after a period (smile). We alle are well here by us.

Reg. Jes

09-13-2013, 11:07 AM	#1
sej-gun User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Denmark Posts: 99 Thanks: 26 Thanked 16 Times in 7 Posts	Unitmark on DWM 1912 Hi Can anyone tell me about this unit markings. It pages on a DWM 1912 (1920) serial number 1023 (ns) with sear safety, no Walther magazine safety Reg Sej-gun Attached Thumbnails

09-13-2013, 10:30 PM	#2
Don M Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 67 Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts	Hi Jes, See item #5 on http://www.historywritinsteel.com/New_Insights.html. __________________ Regards, Don donmaus1@aol.com Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com

09-17-2013, 01:13 PM	#3
Don M Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 67 Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts	Jes, I am responding to your PM here to share this information with others who may be interested. Based partially on the marking you have presented, I am more convinced the position of the "reverse capital J" (subscripted or not) is just an artifact of the armorer's positioning of the die and not a deliberate variation of the marking. If these markings are ever identified, the identity of the unit will have to fit the following evidence: • The capture report for the P08 marked K.L.?.66. states it was captured by a U.S. soldier in Schorndorf, Bavaria, between Regensburg and Cham, in the spring of 1945. • The recorded property numbers in these markings suggest this unit had about 150 members, about the size of a large police company (Hundertschaft). If so, this means that a rather high percentage of these pistols (almost 10%) has been recorded, all or most of which are now in the U.S. This is consistent with a unit location in an American-captured and/or -occupied area such as Bavaria. • Several are complete or nearly complete rigs suggesting they were taken directly from the owners rather than obtained from a stockpile of captured weapons. Many postwar photos show that pistols and holsters usually were separated in such stockpiles. • The P08s have many common characteristics suggesting they were all issued at the same time from the same source. All are Imperial-era military pistols with 1920 government (probably police) property stamps. They all are reported as having been fitted with Schiwy safeties. At least three apparently were reworked in the late 1930s by the government armory at Spandau (E/Su25 stamps on the barrels). Where is the gun you presented located? Europe or the US? Does the barrel have a E/Su25 stamp on the barrel? __________________ Regards, Don donmaus1@aol.com Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com

09-17-2013, 01:16 PM	#4
Don M Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 67 Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts	Jes, I have responded to your PM on the forum to share the information with others. I and my family are well and I hope you can say the same. My project to build a model railroad with my grandson in California has stalled somewhat. He is now 15 and his interests have turned to sports and girls. Perhaps he will pick it up again later. __________________ Regards, Don donmaus1@aol.com Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com Last edited by Don M; 09-17-2013 at 01:17 PM. Reason: Thought this response was via PM. Oh, well!!!

09-19-2013, 10:48 AM	#5
sej-gun User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Denmark Posts: 99 Thanks: 26 Thanked 16 Times in 7 Posts	Hi Don Many thanks for your detailed explanation, actually exciting if it ever gets cleared up what K.L.j. means. This P.08 is in the possession of a collector here in Northern Europe And it has no E/SU25 marking. And about model railroad, I think the interest will probably return after a period (smile). We alle are well here by us. Reg. Jes