Estate Find

Leswad · 07-12-2013, 12:17 AM

I came accross this Luger and took a chance on buying it since the last owner was a collecter of several firearms and I thought the price was reasonable. I have never owned one of these and have been referred to this site to get some more information on it. The Magazine has no marking on it. leswad

Geo99 · 07-12-2013, 12:59 AM

Hi and Welcome -

What do you want to know about it?

You have a WWI German Army Luger manufactured by DWM in 1916 (the date is over the chamber - or is that a 15? can't quite tell from the blurry picture). Looks to be in pretty good shape,and appears to be all original finish, but more and sharper pictures would help.

There should be a "16" on just about every small part you can find. If all matching, then it is worth over $1000.

Both of the walnut grips are chipped at the bottom corners - they don't usually chip there.

There is normally a letter suffix under the SN on the barrel, but I don't know what the mark is below the SN on your barrel. Doesn't look like any letter I know. May be an old rework on the barrel?

- Geo

Edward Tinker · 07-12-2013, 09:00 AM

looks like a 'c' under the barrel to me, but hard to tell. Could be a run of the no suffix of them too

Welcome to the forum

Karl · 07-12-2013, 09:04 AM

I concur that from the photos it appears to have the original finish. I do not see serial numbers on the sear bar and the take down lever. The loss on the lower corner of both grips looks like it might have been a deliberate cut but I can't imagine why.
KFS

Leswad · 07-12-2013, 10:40 AM

Thanks Guys! It looks like a C under the SN, then 383 marked under the C.

DavidJayUden · 07-12-2013, 01:07 PM

8.83 perhaps on the barrel base?

Ben M. · 07-12-2013, 04:36 PM

should the number and letter on the bottom of the barrel show haloes?

mrerick · 07-12-2013, 06:42 PM

Congratulations on your Luger and welcome to the forum, Wade.

Lightened areas around the barrel serial number stampings should be visible. These are called "halos" and occur due to the stress on the metal caused by the stamp when done after finishing.

I can't see these in your photos, but they may be there under different lighting.

If there are none, it's likely that someone has refinished this Luger at some point.

If the grips are properly numbered to this pistol, you should contact Hugh Clark (on this board) about repairing the broken one.

Marc

Leswad · 07-12-2013, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

8.83 perhaps on the barrel base?

Yes. Why would the internal slide be blue? I will get some better pictures when I get back home on Monday.

alvin · 07-13-2013, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben M.

should the number and letter on the bottom of the barrel show haloes?

I think "Yes". But halo need to be checked under very good light. The extractor is supposed to have explicit number on it as well. The color of the toggle (2nd picture) shows strong "soy sauce tone", might be picture issue, or old dried-up surfacial cosmoline? DWM's internal is not blued.

Leswad · 07-14-2013, 06:50 PM

The blue I was refering to is the Indigo color on the left side of the frame. I tried to take some better pics here:

mrerick · 07-14-2013, 10:59 PM

Wade, here is an example of what halos on the barrel would look like on an original rust blued Luger:

Leswad · 07-15-2013, 08:55 AM

Are we saying it is a refinish?

alanint · 07-15-2013, 09:27 AM

Not necesarily. The finish on the gun in general looks good to me. The photo you show of the markings at the bottom of the barrel, however, looks like it is coated with oil and poorly lit. Halos do fade with time, handling and exposure.
A better lit photo of this area, shot from straight on and free of oil would help.,

mrerick · 07-15-2013, 10:06 AM

Wade, your Luger has the sharp edges, aged straw and high point wear that you would expect to find in an original finish gun.

If you take the receiver off the frame, you should see much of the interior of the frame (on the top, not sides under the grips) in the white.

Also, the front of the muzzle and the small pin holding the toggle axle in should be in the white. None of this is visible in the pictures you posted.

Sometimes halos are barely visible, but they should be there. If they are completely missing, it would indicate refinish in that area.

Marc

Leswad · 07-17-2013, 02:15 PM

After reviewing the takedown proceedures, I have decided not to strip it, but I did try and get some better pictures

Leswad · 07-17-2013, 03:01 PM

a few more

Douglas Jr. · 07-17-2013, 04:19 PM

Althought pictures can be deceiving, in my opinion, the finish is completely original.
The overall wear and patina looks uniform and correct.
Oh, and the bright blue ("indigo") on the sear bar spring is correct: it is achieved by heating that part at a specific temperature.

lugerholsterrepair · 07-17-2013, 04:32 PM

If you take the receiver off the frame, you should see much of the interior of the frame (on the top, not sides under the grips) in the white.

Also, the front of the muzzle and the small pin holding the toggle axle in should be in the white. None of this is visible in the pictures you posted.

Leswad · 07-17-2013, 05:39 PM

OK, lets try this:

07-12-2013, 12:17 AM	#1
Leswad User Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Estate Find I came accross this Luger and took a chance on buying it since the last owner was a collecter of several firearms and I thought the price was reasonable. I have never owned one of these and have been referred to this site to get some more information on it. The Magazine has no marking on it. leswad

07-12-2013, 09:00 AM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	looks like a 'c' under the barrel to me, but hard to tell. Could be a run of the no suffix of them too Welcome to the forum __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

07-12-2013, 06:42 PM	#8
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,920 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,135 Times in 1,518 Posts	Congratulations on your Luger and welcome to the forum, Wade. Lightened areas around the barrel serial number stampings should be visible. These are called "halos" and occur due to the stress on the metal caused by the stamp when done after finishing. I can't see these in your photos, but they may be there under different lighting. If there are none, it's likely that someone has refinished this Luger at some point. If the grips are properly numbered to this pistol, you should contact Hugh Clark (on this board) about repairing the broken one. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

07-14-2013, 10:59 PM	#12
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,920 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,135 Times in 1,518 Posts	Wade, here is an example of what halos on the barrel would look like on an original rust blued Luger: Attached Thumbnails __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

07-15-2013, 10:06 AM	#15
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,920 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,135 Times in 1,518 Posts	Wade, your Luger has the sharp edges, aged straw and high point wear that you would expect to find in an original finish gun. If you take the receiver off the frame, you should see much of the interior of the frame (on the top, not sides under the grips) in the white. Also, the front of the muzzle and the small pin holding the toggle axle in should be in the white. None of this is visible in the pictures you posted. Sometimes halos are barely visible, but they should be there. If they are completely missing, it would indicate refinish in that area. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

07-12-2013, 12:59 AM	#2
Geo99 User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Whidbey Island WA Posts: 400 Thanks: 102 Thanked 127 Times in 75 Posts	Hi and Welcome - What do you want to know about it? You have a WWI German Army Luger manufactured by DWM in 1916 (the date is over the chamber - or is that a 15? can't quite tell from the blurry picture). Looks to be in pretty good shape,and appears to be all original finish, but more and sharper pictures would help. There should be a "16" on just about every small part you can find. If all matching, then it is worth over $1000. Both of the walnut grips are chipped at the bottom corners - they don't usually chip there. There is normally a letter suffix under the SN on the barrel, but I don't know what the mark is below the SN on your barrel. Doesn't look like any letter I know. May be an old rework on the barrel? - Geo

07-12-2013, 09:04 AM	#4
Karl Lifer - Twice Over Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Savannah Posts: 530 Thanks: 0 Thanked 280 Times in 123 Posts	I concur that from the photos it appears to have the original finish. I do not see serial numbers on the sear bar and the take down lever. The loss on the lower corner of both grips looks like it might have been a deliberate cut but I can't imagine why. KFS

07-12-2013, 10:40 AM	#5
Leswad User Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks Guys! It looks like a C under the SN, then 383 marked under the C.

07-12-2013, 01:07 PM	#6
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	8.83 perhaps on the barrel base?

07-12-2013, 04:36 PM	#7
Ben M. User Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Retired to Naples, FL. Posts: 498 Thanks: 96 Thanked 145 Times in 90 Posts	should the number and letter on the bottom of the barrel show haloes?

07-14-2013, 06:50 PM	#11
Leswad User Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The blue I was refering to is the Indigo color on the left side of the frame. I tried to take some better pics here:

07-15-2013, 08:55 AM	#13
Leswad User Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Are we saying it is a refinish?

07-15-2013, 09:27 AM	#14
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	Not necesarily. The finish on the gun in general looks good to me. The photo you show of the markings at the bottom of the barrel, however, looks like it is coated with oil and poorly lit. Halos do fade with time, handling and exposure. A better lit photo of this area, shot from straight on and free of oil would help.,

07-17-2013, 02:15 PM	#16
Leswad User Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	After reviewing the takedown proceedures, I have decided not to strip it, but I did try and get some better pictures

07-17-2013, 03:01 PM	#17
Leswad User Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	a few more

07-17-2013, 04:19 PM	#18
Douglas Jr. User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: South America Posts: 948 Thanks: 598 Thanked 584 Times in 254 Posts	Althought pictures can be deceiving, in my opinion, the finish is completely original. The overall wear and patina looks uniform and correct. Oh, and the bright blue ("indigo") on the sear bar spring is correct: it is achieved by heating that part at a specific temperature.

07-17-2013, 04:32 PM	#19
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,133 Times in 1,439 Posts	If you take the receiver off the frame, you should see much of the interior of the frame (on the top, not sides under the grips) in the white. Also, the front of the muzzle and the small pin holding the toggle axle in should be in the white. None of this is visible in the pictures you posted. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

07-17-2013, 05:39 PM	#20
Leswad User Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	OK, lets try this: