Luger Operation Problem

LoneStarSoldier · 05-25-2013, 11:15 AM

New to lugers....
As I understand it, the toggle assembly is suppose to stay open with an empty magazine in.....Mine does not....What is the problem???
Have a Great Day!!!!!!!!

Edward Tinker · 05-25-2013, 12:03 PM

Likely the magazine, unless it does not have a hold open?

LoneStarSoldier · 05-25-2013, 12:53 PM

Tried two mags, both the same...What's a "hold open"???

Curly1 · 05-25-2013, 04:25 PM

Hold open is the piece that holds open the toggle on an empty mag.

Edward Tinker · 05-25-2013, 04:45 PM

Look at the diagram of parts under the technical section

mrerick · 05-25-2013, 04:53 PM

The original version of the Luger didn't have a magazine hold open. Most all later versions had them.

It's a part that fits along the top of the frame, just beside the well that the magazine pushes up through. There is a small spring in the front of it.

Some users removed the hold open because they didn't want an opponent to see that their pistol was empty.

Marc

LoneStarSoldier · 05-25-2013, 05:11 PM

This is a 1920 commercial model....

Vlim · 05-25-2013, 05:19 PM

It's an L-shaped lever, pivoting on a small leaf spring. The lever is pushed upwards by the magazine button on an empty magazine. The toggle hooks behind the lever with a recess machined in the bottom of the toggle.

If all the hardware is present, the failure to hold open is usually caused by the magazine.

SteveM · 05-25-2013, 05:24 PM

If all of the parts are there, you might push up on the magazine while pulling the toggle back and it then may stay open. That will tell you if it is funtioning or not. That has been my experience in the past.

LoneStarSoldier · 05-25-2013, 05:46 PM

I just did that, pushed up on the magazine, and it locked back....There is a bit of play in the magazine.....Is there a easy way to take the play out of the magazine lock....

ithacaartist · 05-25-2013, 06:38 PM

It seems that the slots on the body of the mag may be worn, or elongated, allowing the mag to be loose. Find yourself some new MecGar and use those for shooting.

One could restore the notch to function my TIG welding the worn material back into place. But it would cost ya for a good job by a technician with the skill to do it.

Edward Tinker · 05-25-2013, 07:10 PM

Oh, and its a bit like pure chance if you don't tell us model, yr, serial range, because many Lugers are not the same...

LoneStarSoldier · 05-25-2013, 07:24 PM

As I stated above it's a 1920 Commercial model ....Serial number 5948....
Appreciate all the help I have received on this luger....Plan on buying another soon....

skeeter4206 · 05-25-2013, 08:16 PM

As I have read some lugers have the hold open and some dont. I have an early 1900 AE SN 8372 which has a hold open latch, and a couple other 1916 and 1917 which also have the hold open latches.

Seeing that the AE was one of the early versions and it has it, what vintage and contracts didnt have them

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these are side by side pics of my 1900 AE and my 1916 shooter. They pretty much look the same with little differences in thed frame itself.

mrerick · 05-26-2013, 01:59 PM

Luger patented the hold open in May, 1900. An angled cut improvement was patented 7 years later.

In 1901, a weapons commission complained about the number of parts in a Luger, and the hold open and it's spring were two of the parts that were eliminated.

If I remember correctly, the first issue P.08 military Lugers deleted the hold open.

Some time between 1909 and 1911, the army determined that eliminating the hold open had been a mistake.

In May, 1913, the Prussians issued regulations to restore the hold open device. They also ordered that all existing stock be retro-fitted at the Erfurt arsenal. The majority of existing pistols without hold opens were retro-fitted.

Marc

05-25-2013, 11:15 AM	#1
LoneStarSoldier User Join Date: May 2013 Location: Copperas Cove, TX Posts: 28 Thanks: 15 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post	Luger Operation Problem New to lugers.... As I understand it, the toggle assembly is suppose to stay open with an empty magazine in.....Mine does not....What is the problem??? Have a Great Day!!!!!!!!

05-25-2013, 12:03 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,967 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	Likely the magazine, unless it does not have a hold open? __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

05-25-2013, 04:25 PM	#4
Curly1 User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Upstate New York Posts: 1,247 Thanks: 125 Thanked 717 Times in 374 Posts	Hold open is the piece that holds open the toggle on an empty mag. __________________ Laugh hard and often. Gary

05-25-2013, 04:53 PM	#6
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,920 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,135 Times in 1,518 Posts	The original version of the Luger didn't have a magazine hold open. Most all later versions had them. It's a part that fits along the top of the frame, just beside the well that the magazine pushes up through. There is a small spring in the front of it. Some users removed the hold open because they didn't want an opponent to see that their pistol was empty. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

05-25-2013, 06:38 PM	#11
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,376 Thanks: 7,448 Thanked 2,613 Times in 1,380 Posts	It seems that the slots on the body of the mag may be worn, or elongated, allowing the mag to be loose. Find yourself some new MecGar and use those for shooting. One could restore the notch to function my TIG welding the worn material back into place. But it would cost ya for a good job by a technician with the skill to do it. __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

05-25-2013, 12:53 PM	#3
LoneStarSoldier User Join Date: May 2013 Location: Copperas Cove, TX Posts: 28 Thanks: 15 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post	Tried two mags, both the same...What's a "hold open"???

05-25-2013, 04:45 PM	#5
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,967 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	Look at the diagram of parts under the technical section

05-25-2013, 05:11 PM	#7
LoneStarSoldier User Join Date: May 2013 Location: Copperas Cove, TX Posts: 28 Thanks: 15 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post	This is a 1920 commercial model....

05-25-2013, 05:19 PM	#8
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	It's an L-shaped lever, pivoting on a small leaf spring. The lever is pushed upwards by the magazine button on an empty magazine. The toggle hooks behind the lever with a recess machined in the bottom of the toggle. If all the hardware is present, the failure to hold open is usually caused by the magazine.

05-25-2013, 05:24 PM	#9
SteveM User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 1,016 Thanks: 94 Thanked 275 Times in 137 Posts	If all of the parts are there, you might push up on the magazine while pulling the toggle back and it then may stay open. That will tell you if it is funtioning or not. That has been my experience in the past.

05-25-2013, 05:46 PM	#10
LoneStarSoldier User Join Date: May 2013 Location: Copperas Cove, TX Posts: 28 Thanks: 15 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post	I just did that, pushed up on the magazine, and it locked back....There is a bit of play in the magazine.....Is there a easy way to take the play out of the magazine lock....

05-25-2013, 07:10 PM	#12
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,967 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	Oh, and its a bit like pure chance if you don't tell us model, yr, serial range, because many Lugers are not the same...

05-25-2013, 07:24 PM	#13
LoneStarSoldier User Join Date: May 2013 Location: Copperas Cove, TX Posts: 28 Thanks: 15 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post	As I stated above it's a 1920 Commercial model ....Serial number 5948.... Appreciate all the help I have received on this luger....Plan on buying another soon....

05-25-2013, 08:16 PM	#14
skeeter4206 User Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Augusta, GA Posts: 448 Thanks: 52 Thanked 88 Times in 49 Posts	Hold open Question since on the subject As I have read some lugers have the hold open and some dont. I have an early 1900 AE SN 8372 which has a hold open latch, and a couple other 1916 and 1917 which also have the hold open latches. Seeing that the AE was one of the early versions and it has it, what vintage and contracts didnt have them these are side by side pics of my 1900 AE and my 1916 shooter. They pretty much look the same with little differences in thed frame itself.

05-26-2013, 01:59 PM	#15
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,920 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,135 Times in 1,518 Posts	Luger patented the hold open in May, 1900. An angled cut improvement was patented 7 years later. In 1901, a weapons commission complained about the number of parts in a Luger, and the hold open and it's spring were two of the parts that were eliminated. If I remember correctly, the first issue P.08 military Lugers deleted the hold open. Some time between 1909 and 1911, the army determined that eliminating the hold open had been a mistake. In May, 1913, the Prussians issued regulations to restore the hold open device. They also ordered that all existing stock be retro-fitted at the Erfurt arsenal. The majority of existing pistols without hold opens were retro-fitted. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.