is this Luger taking too much battering?

Mk VII · 04-06-2013, 05:14 PM

Pictures say it all:
a 1917/1920 double-date DWM one with what appears to be a 3rd Reich replacement barrel. Couple of hundred reloads through it so far.

bite mark at the back

topside of barrel extension

right inside the back of the frame

mrerick · 04-06-2013, 07:03 PM

I think so. Double check the recoil spring for adequate tension. Get a new one if it hasn't been replaced recently. If it has, a set of different strength springs is available from Wolffe. You want the pistol to function without too much peening.

How strong are your reloads? What weight bullet?

Marc

Mk VII · 04-06-2013, 07:57 PM

4.2 of Nobel's Pistol No.2, 124gn FMJ. Just enough to make the mechanism work reliably (4.1 not enough in cold weather). Not the maximum in the book, by any means. Also 4.0 of No.2 with 124gn cast TC (but leading). Wolff spring kit has arrived.

skeeter4206 · 04-07-2013, 01:13 AM

There is a thread somewhere on this forum where it tals about ways of checking the pull strength on the toggle. Me and another memeber, I think postino played around with trying measure howmuch pull it takes. It was somewhat experimenting, but its data.

Maybe you can try the before and after when replacing your spring and see if there is a change in pull strength. Maybe it could help pin point that it is the spring, or maybe not. Wouldnt hurt to try.

If you do do it like that thread was doing it, maybe post your results so we can compare with the results we got.

Thanks
Skeeter

skeeter4206 · 04-07-2013, 01:30 AM

I found that thread its at the following threads

< Early Lugers (1900-1906)
< 1900 AE Heavy wear marks?

This could give you any idea of what we were doing.

Sieger · 04-07-2013, 04:57 AM

Hi:

Your frame looks just fine to me.

If your load is barely strong enough to work the action, you are certainly not overloaded.

My favorite light load (which is highly accurate) is 3.7 grs of Bulls Eye with a 124 gr FMJ bullet.

Search my name and you will find several entries on highly accurate and reliable 9mm loads, all of which provide match grade accuracy and are easy on your Luger.

Also, you would do much better with medium-slow powders such as Power Pistol or IMR SR 4756.

Your lead bullets should not be leading your barrel. What type of lube are you using on them?

Enjoy shooting your Luger!!!

Sieger

lugercollector · 04-07-2013, 07:01 AM

I suggest a new main spring.....

rhuff · 04-07-2013, 01:04 PM

If your lead bullets are leading your barrel, they may well be undersize for your bore. Have you slugged your bore to determine the exact bore that your Luger has ? Many/most of the original luger barrels were over the .355in that they were quoted as having. Many were .357-359 in. and if you are loading .355-356in bullets, then you can expect leading, especially with light loads that will not upset/obturate the bullet base.

I load lead in my 30 Luger brass, and try to use .002-.003in over the bore measurements. If you already knew this information, I apologize for repeating it.

Sieger · 04-07-2013, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhuff

If your lead bullets are leading your barrel, they may well be undersize for your bore. Have you slugged your bore to determine the exact bore that your Luger has ? Many/most of the original luger barrels were over the .355in that they were quoted as having. Many were .357-359 in. and if you are loading .355-356in bullets, then you can expect leading, especially with light loads that will not upset/obturate the bullet base.

I load lead in my 30 Luger brass, and try to use .002-.003in over the bore measurements. If you already knew this information, I apologize for repeating it.

Hi,

Everything you say here is true for normal 9mm chambers, however, the Luger has a stepped chamber that will not allow for a bullet diameter larger than .356. Anything larger will jam in the chamber, or worse yet, cause the breach block to not quite close. This is very dangerous, as you can fire a Luger this way without complete action lock-up.

By the way, your 7.65 Luger should have a groove diameter of .312. The original DWM FMJ bullets were just at .309. Are you loading .314 bullets in your 7.65mm?

Sieger

Sieger · 04-07-2013, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lugercollector

I suggest a new main spring.....

Hi,

I would too if anyone were manufacturing them to acceptable specs.

GT and I were going to tackle this little project, but other things seem to have gotten in the way. Perhaps later.

Sieger

rhuff · 04-07-2013, 07:31 PM

He mentioned that his Luger had a replacement barrel, so I questioned if it indeed had a stepped chamber. Perhaps I am off base here.

I am loading my 30 luger brass with .312-.313in dia BHN 15 lead, and getting no leading in my 1921 DWM. I am loading these bullets to factory spec velocity according to my old reloading manuals. I am pleased with the results so far. I do wish that I could find some .309in. FMJRN bullets, but no luck so far, only .308in. FMJ.

The .308in FMJ work fine in my rebarreled (to 30 Luger) BHP and Colt Defender. They have BarSto barrels and have tight bores and chambers.....super accurate. They don't like my oversize lead loads, as I expected.

Sieger · 04-08-2013, 02:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhuff

He mentioned that his Luger had a replacement barrel, so I questioned if it indeed had a stepped chamber. Perhaps I am off base here.

I am loading my 30 luger brass with .312-.313in dia BHN 15 lead, and getting no leading in my 1921 DWM. I am loading these bullets to factory spec velocity according to my old reloading manuals. I am pleased with the results so far. I do wish that I could find some .309in. FMJRN bullets, but no luck so far, only .308in. FMJ.

The .308in FMJ work fine in my rebarreled (to 30 Luger) BHP and Colt Defender. They have BarSto barrels and have tight bores and chambers.....super accurate. They don't like my oversize lead loads, as I expected.

Hi Again,

The stepped chamber was used in the original Luger barrels till the end of WWII.

I'd like to have the value of your experience with the 7.65.

What bullets are you shooting, what powder and at what charge?

Thanks!!

Sieger

Mk VII · 04-23-2013, 05:30 PM

I changed the mainspring, reasonably easily thanks to the information here, and the striker spring. Now seems like it wants a bit more powder to work reliably as the previous load doesn't always work the action. More tests needed next time. Tightened up the safety as well, which tended to creep on.

Markings on receiver right side

Barrel six o'clock

this one has had a long career

04-06-2013, 05:14 PM	#1
Mk VII User Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: England Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	is this Luger taking too much battering? Pictures say it all: a 1917/1920 double-date DWM one with what appears to be a 3rd Reich replacement barrel. Couple of hundred reloads through it so far. bite mark at the back topside of barrel extension right inside the back of the frame

04-06-2013, 07:03 PM	#2
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,919 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,135 Times in 1,518 Posts	I think so. Double check the recoil spring for adequate tension. Get a new one if it hasn't been replaced recently. If it has, a set of different strength springs is available from Wolffe. You want the pistol to function without too much peening. How strong are your reloads? What weight bullet? Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

04-06-2013, 07:57 PM	#3
Mk VII User Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: England Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	4.2 of Nobel's Pistol No.2, 124gn FMJ. Just enough to make the mechanism work reliably (4.1 not enough in cold weather). Not the maximum in the book, by any means. Also 4.0 of No.2 with 124gn cast TC (but leading). Wolff spring kit has arrived.

04-07-2013, 01:13 AM	#4
skeeter4206 User Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Augusta, GA Posts: 448 Thanks: 52 Thanked 88 Times in 49 Posts	There is a thread somewhere on this forum where it tals about ways of checking the pull strength on the toggle. Me and another memeber, I think postino played around with trying measure howmuch pull it takes. It was somewhat experimenting, but its data. Maybe you can try the before and after when replacing your spring and see if there is a change in pull strength. Maybe it could help pin point that it is the spring, or maybe not. Wouldnt hurt to try. If you do do it like that thread was doing it, maybe post your results so we can compare with the results we got. Thanks Skeeter

04-07-2013, 01:30 AM	#5
skeeter4206 User Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Augusta, GA Posts: 448 Thanks: 52 Thanked 88 Times in 49 Posts	I found that thread its at the following threads < Early Lugers (1900-1906) < 1900 AE Heavy wear marks? This could give you any idea of what we were doing.

04-07-2013, 04:57 AM	#6
Sieger User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,579 Thanks: 2,142 Thanked 402 Times in 251 Posts	Hi: Your frame looks just fine to me. If your load is barely strong enough to work the action, you are certainly not overloaded. My favorite light load (which is highly accurate) is 3.7 grs of Bulls Eye with a 124 gr FMJ bullet. Search my name and you will find several entries on highly accurate and reliable 9mm loads, all of which provide match grade accuracy and are easy on your Luger. Also, you would do much better with medium-slow powders such as Power Pistol or IMR SR 4756. Your lead bullets should not be leading your barrel. What type of lube are you using on them? Enjoy shooting your Luger!!! Sieger

04-07-2013, 07:01 AM	#7
lugercollector Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: canada Posts: 322 Thanks: 0 Thanked 25 Times in 15 Posts	I suggest a new main spring.....

04-07-2013, 01:04 PM	#8
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,305 Thanks: 2,735 Thanked 991 Times in 727 Posts	If your lead bullets are leading your barrel, they may well be undersize for your bore. Have you slugged your bore to determine the exact bore that your Luger has ? Many/most of the original luger barrels were over the .355in that they were quoted as having. Many were .357-359 in. and if you are loading .355-356in bullets, then you can expect leading, especially with light loads that will not upset/obturate the bullet base. I load lead in my 30 Luger brass, and try to use .002-.003in over the bore measurements. If you already knew this information, I apologize for repeating it.

04-07-2013, 07:31 PM	#11
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,305 Thanks: 2,735 Thanked 991 Times in 727 Posts	He mentioned that his Luger had a replacement barrel, so I questioned if it indeed had a stepped chamber. Perhaps I am off base here. I am loading my 30 luger brass with .312-.313in dia BHN 15 lead, and getting no leading in my 1921 DWM. I am loading these bullets to factory spec velocity according to my old reloading manuals. I am pleased with the results so far. I do wish that I could find some .309in. FMJRN bullets, but no luck so far, only .308in. FMJ. The .308in FMJ work fine in my rebarreled (to 30 Luger) BHP and Colt Defender. They have BarSto barrels and have tight bores and chambers.....super accurate. They don't like my oversize lead loads, as I expected.

04-23-2013, 05:30 PM	#13
Mk VII User Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: England Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I changed the mainspring, reasonably easily thanks to the information here, and the striker spring. Now seems like it wants a bit more powder to work reliably as the previous load doesn't always work the action. More tests needed next time. Tightened up the safety as well, which tended to creep on. Markings on receiver right side Barrel six o'clock this one has had a long career