What is wrong with this picture(s)?

guns3545 · 03-14-2013, 05:45 PM

Just a couple comments.

The barrel was clearly mounted in other than the factory, The pistol probably left with a 4 inch barrel and was changed out in the USA. But is not unusual. See Stoeger catalogs of the day. In fact, Stoeger even sold various length barrels and receivers as an item but only guaranteed performance if they did the work.

A minor correction. All three lines were roll marked with a die in Berlin. The 1928/9 production had two lines on the receiver and one on the frame. The word GENUINE was added in the USA by Stoeger and is of different style. Not particularly unusual to see halos around frame and not around receiver, Steel hardness was different as was heat treating. Metal was in the white as it left Berlin for Oberndorf.

The two lines in the close up are consistent with the roll mark die. Oval o's, line up of the r's and line up up of the elongated comma with the I in Inc. The o's on the 1922 production at DWM were round and line up of letters was slightly different. The later 1928/9 production were oval. Commas at DWM were curly. The later were more slash like. Having said that, I'm not really sure that they have not been touched up and am bothered by the obviously incorrect (from a finish standpoint) toggle link. Minor point: This is the first Stoeger, I've seen with a serial number lower than 415v that has the wiggly Y in York caused by a deformed die. Common above 415v. Could be just the way they pulled parts during assembly and serialization.

However, I am most concerned about the lack of proofs. Of the 125 Three line Stoegers produced, there have been 43 identifed and each and everyone have one or the other of the acceptable proofing. Now, proofs were applied after final assembly and test while the pistol was in the white. There should be proofs on the receiver and the barrel. Excuse the barrel if it had been swapped out but no rational reason the receiver and breech block should not have proofs. Theory: The receiver was in terrible condition or had been damaged; the proofs were destroyed in restoration and the two line inscription touched up. One theory. Who knows??. This is where having the gun in hand really matters. An alternate scenario says this gun went to Palestine and found its way back to the USA. However, it is not one of the guns that Don Hallock bought from Palestine Electric. Most of the guns used in Palestine were rough and invited restoration. This would explain the Stoeger markings without GENUINE as the Palestine Electric Stoegers did not have the GENUINE because they never went to Stoeger. Again, who knows?

Not terribly bothered about the lack of GENUINE. Although if the theory of the barrel being changed at Stoeger is valid and this gun was reworked and sold by Stoeger, I cannot in my wildest dreams imagine that the GENUINE was not added. Stoeger and DWM/Mauser were involved in an exclusivity law suit and the GENUINE stamp was an idea of Stoeger's that BKIW/DWM/Mauser would not go along with and so they added it in the USA after bluing of course so in most cases the GENUINE has halos.

But its a nice looking gun and I have learned never to say never, much less always.

Apologies for the long winded reply.

John

03-14-2013, 05:45 PM	#12
guns3545 Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 438 Thanks: 661 Thanked 493 Times in 219 Posts	Just a couple comments. The barrel was clearly mounted in other than the factory, The pistol probably left with a 4 inch barrel and was changed out in the USA. But is not unusual. See Stoeger catalogs of the day. In fact, Stoeger even sold various length barrels and receivers as an item but only guaranteed performance if they did the work. A minor correction. All three lines were roll marked with a die in Berlin. The 1928/9 production had two lines on the receiver and one on the frame. The word GENUINE was added in the USA by Stoeger and is of different style. Not particularly unusual to see halos around frame and not around receiver, Steel hardness was different as was heat treating. Metal was in the white as it left Berlin for Oberndorf. The two lines in the close up are consistent with the roll mark die. Oval o's, line up of the r's and line up up of the elongated comma with the I in Inc. The o's on the 1922 production at DWM were round and line up of letters was slightly different. The later 1928/9 production were oval. Commas at DWM were curly. The later were more slash like. Having said that, I'm not really sure that they have not been touched up and am bothered by the obviously incorrect (from a finish standpoint) toggle link. Minor point: This is the first Stoeger, I've seen with a serial number lower than 415v that has the wiggly Y in York caused by a deformed die. Common above 415v. Could be just the way they pulled parts during assembly and serialization. However, I am most concerned about the lack of proofs. Of the 125 Three line Stoegers produced, there have been 43 identifed and each and everyone have one or the other of the acceptable proofing. Now, proofs were applied after final assembly and test while the pistol was in the white. There should be proofs on the receiver and the barrel. Excuse the barrel if it had been swapped out but no rational reason the receiver and breech block should not have proofs. Theory: The receiver was in terrible condition or had been damaged; the proofs were destroyed in restoration and the two line inscription touched up. One theory. Who knows??. This is where having the gun in hand really matters. An alternate scenario says this gun went to Palestine and found its way back to the USA. However, it is not one of the guns that Don Hallock bought from Palestine Electric. Most of the guns used in Palestine were rough and invited restoration. This would explain the Stoeger markings without GENUINE as the Palestine Electric Stoegers did not have the GENUINE because they never went to Stoeger. Again, who knows? Not terribly bothered about the lack of GENUINE. Although if the theory of the barrel being changed at Stoeger is valid and this gun was reworked and sold by Stoeger, I cannot in my wildest dreams imagine that the GENUINE was not added. Stoeger and DWM/Mauser were involved in an exclusivity law suit and the GENUINE stamp was an idea of Stoeger's that BKIW/DWM/Mauser would not go along with and so they added it in the USA after bluing of course so in most cases the GENUINE has halos. But its a nice looking gun and I have learned never to say never, much less always. Apologies for the long winded reply. John