1911 Colt "Black Army"

saab-bob · 12-12-2012, 02:20 AM

Well,I was saving my money for a 1900 AE and then this gun followed me home!

It was on a local auction that sells on Auction Arms,so I got a chance to look at it before bidding.With its incorrect grips and its finish it reminded me of a neglected puppy.The narrative was it belonged to a vet who died many years ago and the family finally decided to sell it,along with about 70 other guns.

So I had to have it.

It was made in early 1918 and for sure saw some action.I got a pretty good deal on it,due to its appearance. Of course,then I went crazy and had to have all the expensive correct parts for it.Yes, the grips are repops. I did find a set of original grips that need some love,however.

Another silly reason to acquire it was that I found more family gear,so I had to get a gun for my rig!

Here is the after and before pics!

The holster is a Keyston Bros. Which is supposed to be rare one?
Its a shooter!

Comments welcome.
Bob

Olle · 12-12-2012, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saab-bob

Yes, the grips are repops. I did find a set of original grips that need some love,however.

I love the "used, but not abused" condition of this gun, so just put them on. It will look even better with worn grips, IMO.

padredan · 12-12-2012, 09:52 AM

You have found a good one, enjoy it.

Douglas Jr. · 12-12-2012, 12:51 PM

Nice and sweety!
I also like the "been-there-done-that" look.

Congratulations.

Douglas.

saab-bob · 12-12-2012, 04:13 PM

Thank you for all the nice comments Gents

Yeah,I will put on the correct Colt grips eventually. Right now,I want to shoot it some and its easier to handle with checkering that actually sticks.

For me,the big thrill of collecting is to hold something and think of its history.I hold this old Colt and think of the dough boys,who volunteered to go to Europe to fight the Huns.Of the next owners who carried it and shoot it and esp to the pinhead who locktied the grips screws on!

The good news,it is a tight gun. I can't feel any looseness between the frame and the slide.

Bob

rhuff · 12-12-2012, 05:15 PM

Bob,

You did good with that purchase. A real winner. I have owned a 1914 Colt 1911 since the late 1950s. I do shoot mine occasionally. They do not have hardened steel frames and slides like the 1911A1s, so if you are going to shoot yours, I might suggest that you find some "soft" ammo. I am a reloader, so I make my own soft loads for my 1911, and 1911A1 pistols. It just keeps things from cracking/breaking.

They bring a smile to my face when I take them to the range. If only they could speak!!

saab-bob · 12-13-2012, 01:17 AM

Rhuff
Thanks for the advice.

I heard about these early Colts being soft. I put all new Wolff springs(standard power) in it and put in a recoil buffer.Any other suggestions? What type and brand of factory loaded ammo do you suggest?

I used to reload many years ago,before I was married. My lovely wife does not approve of molten lead on the stove.

Bob

rhuff · 12-13-2012, 02:40 PM

Bob,

I would stay with Winchester white box, or even better, Winchester 185gr rounds, IF it will feed them. Some will, some won't, since it was designed around hardball. I would avoid Fiocchi as it is a bit hotter than the WWB. NO self defense rounds, or Remington 185gr rounds. If you could find some Cowboy Action ammo, it is always downloaded, and they are now allowing 1911s to be used in some special category. I don't shoot CAS, so I am not up to speed on their categories.

You most likely won't be putting a "ton" of ammo downrange, so you should be fine.

cdmech · 12-13-2012, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhuff

Bob,

I would stay with Winchester white box, or even better, Winchester 185gr rounds, IF it will feed them. Some will, some won't, since it was designed around hardball. I would avoid Fiocchi as it is a bit hotter than the WWB. NO self defense rounds, or Remington 185gr rounds. If you could find some Cowboy Action ammo, it is always downloaded, and they are now allowing 1911s to be used in some special category. I don't shoot CAS, so I am not up to speed on their categories.

You most likely won't be putting a "ton" of ammo downrange, so you should be fine.

I recently bought an old Springfield M1911. I've been shooting it with Remington UMC 230gr FMJ rounds. Is this OK? I didn't know about the difference in metals.
Marc

padredan · 12-13-2012, 11:58 PM

rem umc 230 you will be ok, as long as your pistol is solid.

cdmech · 12-14-2012, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by padredan

rem umc 230 you will be ok, as long as your pistol is solid.

Ok Im going to really show my ignorance here, but wouldn't it be harder on a gun to "launch" a 230grn projectile than a 185 grn one?
Marc

padredan · 12-14-2012, 12:34 AM

the 1911's and a1's were designed for the 230 gr ball, it had the stopping power, a bit slower but it was the battlefield round used and designed for them. Lighter will be faster. i think it maybe up to the owner to deside what is best for his gun, umc in 230gr is just a suggestion.

padredan · 12-14-2012, 12:40 AM

Not wanting to get into telling war stories or this may have happened or that, i know that a slabsides like this one and full metal jacket 230gr rounds saved my butt more than once. what they were designed to shoot and thats what i use.

padredan · 12-14-2012, 10:06 AM

one reason the extra cost and not mil spec.

rhuff · 12-14-2012, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdmech

I recently bought an old Springfield M1911. I've been shooting it with Remington UMC 230gr FMJ rounds. Is this OK? I didn't know about the difference in metals.
Marc

I don't have any experience with that ammo, so I can't comment on it. The Remington(not Winchester) 185gr 45ACP load is screaming HOT!! The Winchester 185gr is very comfortable to shoot....much more than factory 230gr hardball. As I mentioned above, not all of the 1911, and 1911A1 will feed this short flat point bullet. Modern 1911s have no problem.

Due to the soft steel in these old warhorses, I just don't want to risk a fractured frame or slide on my guns. I enjoy shooting them, but would be very upset if I ruined one. For that reason, I stick with a soft shooting load.....and being a reloader, that is no problem.

cdmech · 12-14-2012, 07:44 PM

Thanks for the ammo information, glad I can benefit from all the knowledge here. Here's a picture of the 1911 I recently picked up. Colt frame, Springfield slide, was advertised as an arsenal rebuild but doesn't have any arsenal stamps so who knows I guess. I was sold on the "patina". I think that greenish cosmoline stained parkerizing is the absolute best gun color ever.

rhuff · 12-15-2012, 05:37 PM

The original 1911s had no hardening to the steel frames and slides. I own a 1943 Lend-Lease 1911A1 the shows real distinctly the hardening of the distal 2 inches of the slide where they were experiencing problems with metal fracturing and excessive wear on the early guns. The hardened area is a different color of parkerizing than the remainder of the slide. These 1911s had some hard service, and got rebuilt frequently when parts fractured. Most folks are pretty careful about shooting the original early 1911s, not so much for the later 1911A1s. I am careful about shooting both of mine.

saab-bob · 12-30-2012, 07:31 PM

Well,I finally got around to giving my new to me 1911 Colt a range session!
It worked great! Very accurate,although the early small battle sights are tough to use.
In deference to it age and per recommendations of you gents,I used the WW white box. No problems.
I did try some hand loaded target 45 ACP that a friend had made up. It didn't like those much. He used a semi wad cutter bullet. That ammo had a tendency to hang up on the feed ramp. So these guns need round nose FMJ only.
Fun stuff!
Bob

rhuff · 12-31-2012, 04:06 PM

If your reloader friend wants to load you some "soft" loads for your 1911, tell him to use some Xtreme 200gr plated RN bullets with a reduced powder charge/target load, and they will feed just fine. If they are too soft, then you will need to install reduced weight recoil springs for 100% reliability.

These old warhorses were designed for hardball round nose ammo. They can be made to feed other bullet profiles, but I didn't want to alter my barrels.

12-12-2012, 02:20 AM	#1
saab-bob User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: So Cal Posts: 459 Thanks: 774 Thanked 143 Times in 87 Posts	1911 Colt "Black Army" Well,I was saving my money for a 1900 AE and then this gun followed me home! It was on a local auction that sells on Auction Arms,so I got a chance to look at it before bidding.With its incorrect grips and its finish it reminded me of a neglected puppy.The narrative was it belonged to a vet who died many years ago and the family finally decided to sell it,along with about 70 other guns. So I had to have it. It was made in early 1918 and for sure saw some action.I got a pretty good deal on it,due to its appearance. Of course,then I went crazy and had to have all the expensive correct parts for it.Yes, the grips are repops. I did find a set of original grips that need some love,however. Another silly reason to acquire it was that I found more family gear,so I had to get a gun for my rig! Here is the after and before pics! The holster is a Keyston Bros. Which is supposed to be rare one? Its a shooter! Comments welcome. Bob Attached Thumbnails __________________ "I think,therefore I own guns"

12-12-2012, 09:52 AM	#3
padredan User Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: louisiana Now, but from the Rebublic of Texas Posts: 937 Thanks: 429 Thanked 316 Times in 182 Posts	You have found a good one, enjoy it. __________________ In this world nothing is free, except the grace of God

12-12-2012, 04:13 PM	#5
saab-bob User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: So Cal Posts: 459 Thanks: 774 Thanked 143 Times in 87 Posts	Thank you for all the nice comments Gents Yeah,I will put on the correct Colt grips eventually. Right now,I want to shoot it some and its easier to handle with checkering that actually sticks. For me,the big thrill of collecting is to hold something and think of its history.I hold this old Colt and think of the dough boys,who volunteered to go to Europe to fight the Huns.Of the next owners who carried it and shoot it and esp to the pinhead who locktied the grips screws on! The good news,it is a tight gun. I can't feel any looseness between the frame and the slide. Bob __________________ "I think,therefore I own guns"

12-13-2012, 01:17 AM	#7
saab-bob User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: So Cal Posts: 459 Thanks: 774 Thanked 143 Times in 87 Posts	Rhuff Thanks for the advice. I heard about these early Colts being soft. I put all new Wolff springs(standard power) in it and put in a recoil buffer.Any other suggestions? What type and brand of factory loaded ammo do you suggest? I used to reload many years ago,before I was married. My lovely wife does not approve of molten lead on the stove. Bob __________________ "I think,therefore I own guns" Last edited by saab-bob; 12-13-2012 at 01:18 AM. Reason: spelling

12-13-2012, 11:58 PM	#10
padredan User Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: louisiana Now, but from the Rebublic of Texas Posts: 937 Thanks: 429 Thanked 316 Times in 182 Posts	rem umc 230 you will be ok, as long as your pistol is solid. __________________ In this world nothing is free, except the grace of God

12-12-2012, 12:51 PM	#4
Douglas Jr. User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: South America Posts: 948 Thanks: 598 Thanked 584 Times in 254 Posts	Nice and sweety! I also like the "been-there-done-that" look. Congratulations. Douglas.

12-12-2012, 05:15 PM	#6
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,272 Thanks: 2,692 Thanked 959 Times in 705 Posts	Bob, You did good with that purchase. A real winner. I have owned a 1914 Colt 1911 since the late 1950s. I do shoot mine occasionally. They do not have hardened steel frames and slides like the 1911A1s, so if you are going to shoot yours, I might suggest that you find some "soft" ammo. I am a reloader, so I make my own soft loads for my 1911, and 1911A1 pistols. It just keeps things from cracking/breaking. They bring a smile to my face when I take them to the range. If only they could speak!!

12-13-2012, 02:40 PM	#8
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,272 Thanks: 2,692 Thanked 959 Times in 705 Posts	Bob, I would stay with Winchester white box, or even better, Winchester 185gr rounds, IF it will feed them. Some will, some won't, since it was designed around hardball. I would avoid Fiocchi as it is a bit hotter than the WWB. NO self defense rounds, or Remington 185gr rounds. If you could find some Cowboy Action ammo, it is always downloaded, and they are now allowing 1911s to be used in some special category. I don't shoot CAS, so I am not up to speed on their categories. You most likely won't be putting a "ton" of ammo downrange, so you should be fine.

12-14-2012, 12:34 AM	#12
padredan User Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: louisiana Now, but from the Rebublic of Texas Posts: 937 Thanks: 429 Thanked 316 Times in 182 Posts	the 1911's and a1's were designed for the 230 gr ball, it had the stopping power, a bit slower but it was the battlefield round used and designed for them. Lighter will be faster. i think it maybe up to the owner to deside what is best for his gun, umc in 230gr is just a suggestion. __________________ In this world nothing is free, except the grace of God

12-14-2012, 12:40 AM	#13
padredan User Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: louisiana Now, but from the Rebublic of Texas Posts: 937 Thanks: 429 Thanked 316 Times in 182 Posts	Not wanting to get into telling war stories or this may have happened or that, i know that a slabsides like this one and full metal jacket 230gr rounds saved my butt more than once. what they were designed to shoot and thats what i use. Attached Thumbnails __________________ In this world nothing is free, except the grace of God

12-14-2012, 10:06 AM	#14
padredan User Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: louisiana Now, but from the Rebublic of Texas Posts: 937 Thanks: 429 Thanked 316 Times in 182 Posts	one reason the extra cost and not mil spec. __________________ In this world nothing is free, except the grace of God

12-14-2012, 07:44 PM	#16
cdmech User Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 218 Thanks: 87 Thanked 134 Times in 55 Posts	Thanks for the ammo information, glad I can benefit from all the knowledge here. Here's a picture of the 1911 I recently picked up. Colt frame, Springfield slide, was advertised as an arsenal rebuild but doesn't have any arsenal stamps so who knows I guess. I was sold on the "patina". I think that greenish cosmoline stained parkerizing is the absolute best gun color ever. Attached Thumbnails

12-15-2012, 05:37 PM	#17
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,272 Thanks: 2,692 Thanked 959 Times in 705 Posts	The original 1911s had no hardening to the steel frames and slides. I own a 1943 Lend-Lease 1911A1 the shows real distinctly the hardening of the distal 2 inches of the slide where they were experiencing problems with metal fracturing and excessive wear on the early guns. The hardened area is a different color of parkerizing than the remainder of the slide. These 1911s had some hard service, and got rebuilt frequently when parts fractured. Most folks are pretty careful about shooting the original early 1911s, not so much for the later 1911A1s. I am careful about shooting both of mine.

12-30-2012, 07:31 PM	#18
saab-bob User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: So Cal Posts: 459 Thanks: 774 Thanked 143 Times in 87 Posts	Well,I finally got around to giving my new to me 1911 Colt a range session! It worked great! Very accurate,although the early small battle sights are tough to use. In deference to it age and per recommendations of you gents,I used the WW white box. No problems. I did try some hand loaded target 45 ACP that a friend had made up. It didn't like those much. He used a semi wad cutter bullet. That ammo had a tendency to hang up on the feed ramp. So these guns need round nose FMJ only. Fun stuff! Bob __________________ "I think,therefore I own guns"

12-31-2012, 04:06 PM	#19
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,272 Thanks: 2,692 Thanked 959 Times in 705 Posts	If your reloader friend wants to load you some "soft" loads for your 1911, tell him to use some Xtreme 200gr plated RN bullets with a reduced powder charge/target load, and they will feed just fine. If they are too soft, then you will need to install reduced weight recoil springs for 100% reliability. These old warhorses were designed for hardball round nose ammo. They can be made to feed other bullet profiles, but I didn't want to alter my barrels.