Krieghoff question

skeeter4206 · 11-07-2012, 06:18 PM

I have been just browsing the web looking at lugers for sale. All Krieghoff lugers have a pretty price for them. As I know nothing about these lugers, what makes these lugers so valuable.

guns3545 · 11-07-2012, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skeeter4206

I have been just browsing the web looking at lugers for sale. All Krieghoff lugers have a pretty price for them. As I know nothing about these lugers, what makes these lugers so valuable.

I can give you a longer answer but the short answer is: RARITY.

Mauser was making P.08s for the military from about 1934 until production stopped in 1942/3. They averaged about 10,000 pistols per month throughout this period. A million Lugers more or less in the Mauser Era.

Krieghoff made about 13,000 Lugers total including some Commercial variants from 1935 until production stopped in 1945.

Additionally, the fit and finish of the Krieghoffs is recognized as being superior to Mauser Military production, almost reaching commercial quality.

Finally, there is the survival rate. Krieghoff were issued to Air Defense, Bomber crews and Airborne troops. As you may know P.08s were too large for fighter pilots because of the small cockpits so not many P.08s found their way to the Luftwaffe per se but more to the ground or air capable services commanded by the Luftwaffe. BTW, Luftwaffe rather than Army inspectors controlled the quality of production and its acceptance. There are not many around.

The bottom line remains RARITY. But to me as a collector, in addition to being a superb War Gun, they are beautifully made.

Now to be clear. The P.08 lacks the proportion and shear beauty and balance of the DWM Model 1900s. But as far as P.08s are concerned, IMVHO, they represent the epitome of the art and science.

John

Edward Tinker · 11-07-2012, 06:59 PM

John, mostly agree, but there are rarer guns. There were almost a 1,000+ less Simson's made

Krieghoff's are not only rarer, but have a very nice finish, Simson's were built for the military and met those standards, but IMHO Krieghoff had larger contracts in mind and put extra special attention to making them as nice as possible (which they did win a machingun contract, which was very lucrative for them).

Skeeter, have you started buying some of the less expensive, but better luger books 9read the reviews, some are not worth buying)....

skeeter4206 · 11-07-2012, 07:08 PM

No, I sure havent. As for reading literature, whats some good ones to get and fill in some of the holes in my learning curve. Ive read a good bit on web pages and on this forum. But theres only so much reading one can do on the web without forking out some cash.

Edward Tinker · 11-07-2012, 07:17 PM

In the new collectors area are 'stickies' at the top, several talk about book reviews

In short

older books like Jones and Datig are still worthwhile - good info, just some is aged

Walters book called the Luger Story

Then any of Jan Still's are great

Ed

mrerick · 11-07-2012, 08:14 PM

If you are interested in Mauser Lugers, get Don Hallock and Joop Van de Kant's "The Mauser Parabellum".

It's a year by year inventory of the variations of Mauser manufactured Lugers.

Since this is a Krieghoff thread, check out the book Randall Gibson published "The Krieghoff Parabellum".

- - - - - - - - -

Back on the OP topic, I also wish I completely understood why demand for Krieghoff Lugers is so much higher than the rarer Simson & Co. pistols. Perhaps it is the allure of the Luftwaffe... Even respecting John and Ed's comments above, the Rust Blued Simson Lugers are well made, with excessive attention to detail (with individual parts all inspected and marked, down to the screws).

Marc

Edward Tinker · 11-07-2012, 09:54 PM

Marc, I specifically collect Simson's, so, I think they are great guns

cirelaw · 11-08-2012, 09:44 AM

The pre-war like my 1937 is as close to perfect in every respect. The blueing is beautiful. They were made up to the end of the war 1945 and there perfection did suffer! Then less were made or survived and more scarce. Eric

lugersrkewl · 11-08-2012, 05:56 PM

Skeeter , lugers at random for about 35 or so shipped is well worth it as is any of the books aforementioned

Gebirg · 11-10-2012, 06:11 AM

Both Krieghoff and Simson are beautiful guns...I understand that Simson was a jewish factory known for its quality before the nazi regime took over...?

CJS57 · 11-10-2012, 07:52 AM

I had an original 1925 or so original manufactured Simson frame a few weeks back. It was a thing of beauty. Commercial quality inside and out.

Edward Tinker · 11-10-2012, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJS57

I had an original 1925 or so original manufactured Simson frame a few weeks back. It was a thing of beauty. Commercial quality inside and out.

I'd love to hear about any markings, sn etc on the Simson?

CJS57 · 11-10-2012, 09:08 PM

I had it posted here, it is sold now: http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...nd-Barrel-Help!

Michael Zeleny · 11-11-2012, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gebirg

Both Krieghoff and Simson are beautiful guns...I understand that Simson was a jewish factory known for its quality before the nazi regime took over...?

So was DWM.

11-07-2012, 06:18 PM	#1
skeeter4206 User Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Augusta, GA Posts: 448 Thanks: 52 Thanked 88 Times in 49 Posts	Krieghoff question I have been just browsing the web looking at lugers for sale. All Krieghoff lugers have a pretty price for them. As I know nothing about these lugers, what makes these lugers so valuable.

11-07-2012, 06:59 PM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,963 Thanks: 2,064 Thanked 4,593 Times in 2,115 Posts	John, mostly agree, but there are rarer guns. There were almost a 1,000+ less Simson's made Krieghoff's are not only rarer, but have a very nice finish, Simson's were built for the military and met those standards, but IMHO Krieghoff had larger contracts in mind and put extra special attention to making them as nice as possible (which they did win a machingun contract, which was very lucrative for them). Skeeter, have you started buying some of the less expensive, but better luger books 9read the reviews, some are not worth buying).... __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

11-07-2012, 07:17 PM	#5
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,963 Thanks: 2,064 Thanked 4,593 Times in 2,115 Posts	In the new collectors area are 'stickies' at the top, several talk about book reviews In short older books like Jones and Datig are still worthwhile - good info, just some is aged Walters book called the Luger Story Then any of Jan Still's are great Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

11-07-2012, 08:14 PM	#6
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,920 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,135 Times in 1,518 Posts	If you are interested in Mauser Lugers, get Don Hallock and Joop Van de Kant's "The Mauser Parabellum". It's a year by year inventory of the variations of Mauser manufactured Lugers. Since this is a Krieghoff thread, check out the book Randall Gibson published "The Krieghoff Parabellum". - - - - - - - - - Back on the OP topic, I also wish I completely understood why demand for Krieghoff Lugers is so much higher than the rarer Simson & Co. pistols. Perhaps it is the allure of the Luftwaffe... Even respecting John and Ed's comments above, the Rust Blued Simson Lugers are well made, with excessive attention to detail (with individual parts all inspected and marked, down to the screws). Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

11-08-2012, 09:44 AM	#8
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,138 Times in 2,176 Posts	I Would Agree With Ed An Add, The pre-war like my 1937 is as close to perfect in every respect. The blueing is beautiful. They were made up to the end of the war 1945 and there perfection did suffer! Then less were made or survived and more scarce. Eric Attached Thumbnails Attached Images

11-07-2012, 07:08 PM	#4
skeeter4206 User Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Augusta, GA Posts: 448 Thanks: 52 Thanked 88 Times in 49 Posts	No, I sure havent. As for reading literature, whats some good ones to get and fill in some of the holes in my learning curve. Ive read a good bit on web pages and on this forum. But theres only so much reading one can do on the web without forking out some cash.

11-07-2012, 09:54 PM	#7
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,963 Thanks: 2,064 Thanked 4,593 Times in 2,115 Posts	Marc, I specifically collect Simson's, so, I think they are great guns

11-08-2012, 05:56 PM	#9
lugersrkewl Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Ussr Posts: 425 Thanks: 198 Thanked 75 Times in 58 Posts	Skeeter , lugers at random for about 35 or so shipped is well worth it as is any of the books aforementioned

11-10-2012, 06:11 AM	#10
Gebirg User Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Telemark Posts: 94 Thanks: 68 Thanked 158 Times in 34 Posts	Both Krieghoff and Simson are beautiful guns...I understand that Simson was a jewish factory known for its quality before the nazi regime took over...? __________________ Mr. AKB - Norway "SILENT LEGES INTER ARMA" Denn unter den Waffen schweigen die Gesetze (M.T.Cicero)

11-10-2012, 07:52 AM	#11
CJS57 User Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 224 Thanks: 0 Thanked 81 Times in 41 Posts	I had an original 1925 or so original manufactured Simson frame a few weeks back. It was a thing of beauty. Commercial quality inside and out.

11-10-2012, 09:08 PM	#13
CJS57 User Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 224 Thanks: 0 Thanked 81 Times in 41 Posts	I had it posted here, it is sold now: http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...nd-Barrel-Help!