1916 Erfurt sear bars

[wlyon]

According to Jan's Central Power book Erfurt changed to a relieved sear bar in 1916. I have seen 4 a suffix 1916's with a relieved sear bar. So must have been very early in 1916? Any info on this? Did this occur all at once or over a period until supplies were used up? Would be intereesting to hear from people with 1916 Erfurts by serial number and non relieved or relieved sear bars. Bill

[alanint]

Do early "relieved" sear bars show evidence of post production modification or where they immediately produced with the cut down surface?

[Norme]

Hi Bill, I don't recall ever seeing a 1916 Erfurt with an unrelieved sear bar. Here's #5302n/s with a relieved bar. Regards, Norm

[DavidJayUden]

Can someone post examples so the class can learn to tell the differences? And when were the changes made, which maker, etc?
dju

[Edward Tinker]

David, I have 5 or 6 sear bars upstairs and the other day I was putting together a shooter luger and lo and behold, I had an unrelieved sear bar?

I know others have guns with and without, but I will take pictures of the 'loose' ones i have.

Is it possible it is a Swiss / as I bought some parts 3 or 4 yrs ago ??


Ed

[Norme]

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

Can someone post examples so the class can learn to tell the differences? And when were the changes made, which maker, etc?
dju

Hi David, The first photo shows an un-reiieved sear bar, on a 1912 Erfurt, the second, a relieved sear bar on a 1916 Erfurt. This modification, which was mandated in 1916, makes it possible to chamber a round with the gun on safe. Regards, Norm

[DavidJayUden]

So are the relieved sears numbered? Do all post 1916 Lugers, all mfg. and both commercial and military have relieved sears?
Thanks.
dju

[MFC]

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

So are the relieved sears numbered? Do all post 1916 Lugers, all mfg. and both commercial and military have relieved sears?
Thanks.
dju

Yes and yes.

[wlyon]

Yes and many of the 1916 Erfurts and 1916 DWM's have relieved sear bars.
So for 1916 depending upon serial number you can find both non relieved and relieved sear bars. That started my original thread. Curious when this occured by serial number. With Norm's no suffix in the 5300's for Erfurt it had to occur pretty early. Don't know about DWM except 1916. Would still appreciate hearing from members with 1916 Erfurts, serial number and relieved or not. Does anyone have a 1916 Erfurt with a non relieved sear bar? Thanks Bill

[Ron Wood]

Originally Posted by Norme

This modification, which was mandated in 1916, makes it possible to chamber a round with the gun on safe. Regards, Norm

I used to think that was the way to explain the modification...but it isn't exactly correct. The modification is intended to allow a loaded round to be cleared from the chamber with the safety on. If the gun is not already loaded (i.e. the firing pin is not cocked) you can't work the toggle to chamber a round. The safety blocks the sear and will not allow it to cam out to set the firing pin, which in turn blocks the full movement of the toggle and won't allow a round to be picked up from the magazine.

(Sorry to side track your post Bill )

[DavidJayUden]

Very interestiong. Thank you all.
Sticky?
dju

[wlyon]

Ron
You can sidetrack my posts anytime. It never seems like a sidetrack. Always learn something when you comment. Thanks for sharing your vast luger knowledge. Bill

[Norme]

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

I used to think that was the way to explain the modification...but it isn't exactly correct. The modification is intended to allow a loaded round to be cleared from the chamber with the safety on. If the gun is not already loaded (i.e. the firing pin is not cocked) you can't work the toggle to chamber a round. The safety blocks the sear and will not allow it to cam out to set the firing pin, which in turn blocks the full movement of the toggle and won't allow a round to be picked up from the magazine.

Hi Ron, While your certainly right that one can un-chamber a round with the safety on, the reverse is also true, if the firing pin is cocked, a Lugers normal condition. If I were to leave a loaded Luger lying round the house (I don't, as I have small grandchildren), it would be cocked and loaded, with the safety on, and with an empty chamber. Best regards, Norm

[alanint]

Can anybody address my first question?

Where early sear bars cut down, or where new, relieved sear bars manufactured as such from the very begining?

[Edward Tinker]

alan, I have always heard that they were cut down / modified, but I don't know for sure...

[Edward Tinker]

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

Very interestiong. Thank you all.
Sticky?
dju

I thought i would wait a bit, make a copy, and then make it a sticky while taking out unnecessary postings (like mine)

[Edward Tinker]

my first thought and I started to write is that you should be able to tell, but any good machinist, let alone if done at the factory, would look like an original part wouldn't it?

[wlyon]

My best guess is that when ever the change was ordered they made new sear bars. I am sure there were many unrelieved at the factory which they reworked before serial numbers were added. Apparently they were never recalled (such as the hold open) because all prior to 1916 seem to be unrelieved. Still want serial numbers both Erfurt and DWM. Thanks Bill

[Norme]

Hi Bill, The very earliest 1916 Navies with serial numbers below #900, had unrelieved sear bars. They were most likely made in Oct 1916. All subsequent Navies had the "new and improved" relieved sear bar. Hope this helps. Regards, Norm

[Nomadr]

For whats it worth, here's a photo of my 1914 Erfurt with a replaced sear. I say replaced (and original not milled down) because you can see the original sear number (73) and the re-stamp (40) to match the pistol.

Unless the (73) is not a serial number?

Bob