New Thompson 1927 A1

[ithacaartist]

Well, I received my new Thompson 1927A-1 back from the factory in Wooster MA. They changed out the ill-fitting rear grip for one that fits properly, gave the 10-round drum mag a trip thru the vice so that the stampings would fit into the grooves on the receiver, and test fired it. The rattle evident between the frame and upper they deemed "within spec" and did nothing; the failure to set the f.p. during my initial test firinG (first shot!) did not reoccur. It would seem that that's the best I can extract from them, under the circumstances. The drum mag now actually fits, and it feeds fine.

My new problem is with how the 30 shot stick mag fits and feeds--rather, is deficient in these respects. The mag in question is pre-ban vintage, supplied by the factory as part of my original order. It tended to hang up on the rounds presented on the left side of their zig-zag stack. The sharp lower edge of the funnel-shaped feed area behind the chamber caught a handful of rounds on their way to the chamber, digging into the copper jacket to start shaving off a piece of the bullet, or caught the tiny step in dimension presented by the end of the casing. With the front end of the round hung up in this way, it'd jam right up.

Examination of the feed lips of the mag yielded the observation that the left side appeared to have been hit by the bolt at some point, resulting in a dent about halfway along its upper edge. The symmetry was way off, too, with the left and right hand profiles of different radii and angles. I clamped a 1/2" steel rod in the vice and used it as a mandrel to make the left side lips look more like the right. Fine tuning was necessary to influence the top rounds to come off straight and smoothly--and controlled--by hand, about the same way both sides. The right side was the benchmark, as rounds exiting from this side came out straight and smoothly already. With a little patience I was able to improve the feed considerably by doing this.

The mag rattled all around when clicked into position, as was. The displacement was evident in all directions, even rotational, and I figured that anything I did to effectively jack the front of the mag up and prevent it from twisting all around would help. Between the back of the mag and the front surface of the back side of the "well", about 3/64" space was evident on either side of the back "T" form of the mag. So I tried a good, ol' shim on either side to snug things up and kick the lower end of the mag forward, which also eliminated most twisting on its vertical axis. I accomplished this by applying a ramp constructed of successively longer strips of self-adhesive stainless steel tape to the flats, tucked under either side of, and parallel to, the "T" shape, or spine. (Sorry, someone correct my terminology, if necessary. Thanks) The result is that the mag clicks in snug and moves around way less. The arrangement (cob job) is not visible when the stick is in place.

Something I noticed about the current Thompson is that the journey from stick mag to chamber is sort of perilous for a round to make without going somewhat astray. That ~1/4" gap between the front of the mag lips and the back edge of the feed ramp/structure was where the rounds had screwed up; the lips seemed to ride a hair low in this arrangement, allowing the sharp lower edge of the ramp to catch the side of the round's jacket and dig right in. This was fixed by the shims. I tried about a dozen rounds thru it, post adjustment. The first round needed help to be picked up by the bolt, but once I had it chambered, the rest all made it, except two rounds that hung up with the action not quite back in battery.

I thought my 1911 was a dirty gun to shoot, but the condensed crud and residue from just a few shots made the formerly shiny inside of the 1927's feed area look as if I'd blacked it with a candle flame! I think that the offending rounds merely hung up in the gritty dirt on the way in. But this is where the expertise of the forum comes in handy. Does anyone have any comments about my approach, or suggestions how to further improve the dependability of feed?

David Parker

[alanint]

Does your gun still have the Kahr arms oblong mag catch and corresponding oblong hole in the mag? If so, order a GI mag catch and a couple of GI mags and that should hopefully alleviate this issue.
I own several TSMGs, both full auto and SBR. They all feed and function just fine as long as GI parts are used.

[ithacaartist]

Doug,

The mag catch appears round, the catch hole in the mag is oblong. The mag is unmarked and sold to me as "pre-ban" (otherwise, I'd be limited to ten round mags here in NYS.) Economics figure in here somewhere, as I'm about tapped out and would prefer not to lay out any more dough for the moment. I'm thinking I could send the mag back for tuning and testing at the factory. Otherwise, I'm tempted to TIG weld the edge of the catch hole tighter, although, as I said, my stainless tape shims took out 95% of the play; and I'm not sure a different hole for the catch will make any difference in the rest of the ways it fits so loosely. Would the GI version fit the slots any better, where this one seems small?

[cirelaw]

Ive owned my semi for years and never fired. I could barely pick it up unloaded to take this picture. It is way cool The must use plastic one in the movies! Eric

[CAP Black]

I likewise have one and it is new in the box. It is a load. But not a real burden. If it weren't NIB I would shoot it. I'll someday get to shoot someone's, I hope; or I'll buy one that is a shooter. Several of us members seem to have similar tastes in different guns.
Enjoy.
Jack

[alanint]

David,

The round, (correct GI) mag catch and the oblong hole in the mag are the most likely source of your poor feeding issues. See if you can source an original, unmessed with GI mag an try again. An original mag should lock up snug.

[ithacaartist]

I'm also posing my questions about this situation on other gun forums. The SMG sent me to the semi-auto section, but also suggested that the differing catch and mag catch hole configuration was a possible source of woe. The responder also offered that the rattling stick mags is very prevalent, but should not affect anything. Examination of the arrangement leads me to think that if the mag can be induced to ride higher, this would take care of it--that the deflections in whatever direction won't matter as long as the rounds can successfully jump the gap between mag and receiver as they are pushed forward. I've noticed that the bolt doesn't overlap the butt of the case much when they meet, and there is still lots of clearance between it and the feed lips; so, the entire stick could sit a touch higher.

Eric, OMG! I'm shooting mine and recommending the same for you! When this cycles properly, it is pretty sweet--very little recoil, due to its mass, and surprisingly quiet from the operator's position, way quieter than my 1911 to shoot. No numbered parts to break, and if one does, replacements seem lots easier to buy than Luger parts. If you're careful with the outside finishes, how much wear is going to occur if you run a few hundred rounds through it? I think that the difference in collectability this would make would be worth the experience. These things are definitely expensive (for what you get) new, and pretty pricey used, as well. I don't exactly plan to burn up the track with mine, but I think it is a positive thing in one respect to establish that it can, indeed, run--without stumbling!

And, yeah, these are 13 pounds unloaded. Add a full 100 round drum, and it's like holding two bags of sugar at arm's length!

[rhuff]

David,

Is it legal for you to purchase a WWll original TSM mag where you live? These mags are very nice quality and function 100% in my 1928. I purchased a "ton" of them from Sarco still in the wrappers many years ago for next to nothing. They are still inexpensive in excellent condition. I just don't know your laws concerning these mags.



I agree with you that there is nothing collectible about these 1927 long bbl. replicas from Kahr or anyone else. There are no numbered parts, and parts are readily available. Those are definately a gun that I would shoot. Heck, I shoot my original quite often.....and always get a big smile on my face!!

[cirelaw]

I'm unable to handle it safe. Since my fall CostaRico ten years ago causing a sub dura hematoma, 3 shoulder tears not to mention falling my doctors office an ortho no less fratured left ankle then a fall in my bathroon 3 years ago fracturing my right fibula. six month later the four screw holing my tibla broke in half. The big time reconstuction, 4 month in a rehab hospital. Ron Wood and cheered me up! I'll stick with my carbine. Ill never forget the get well from our friends and familys THANK YOU

[cirelaw]

I now doing better than ever. Lots of prayers, a great Wife allot of Italian food and the dear Friendships that have grown in the Forum!! I will lose my luger virginity before the end of the year!!!!!!!!Thanks for all the support!

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by rhuff

David,

Is it legal for you to purchase a WWll original TSM mag where you live? These mags are very nice quality and function 100% in my 1928. I purchased a "ton" of them from Sarco still in the wrappers many years ago for next to nothing. They are still inexpensive in excellent condition. I just don't know your laws concerning these mags.

Richard, from http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...J7ll0AoVjCRJ1A

"New York Large Capacity Ammunition Feeding Device
It is a class D felony to manufacture, transport, dispose of, or possess a large capacity ammunition
feeding device, which N.Y. Penal Law § 265.00(23) defines as "a magazine, belt, drum, feed strip,
or similar device" manufactured after September 13, 1994, "that has a capacity of, or that can be
readily restored or converted to accept, more than ten rounds of ammunition." Section 265.02."

It should not be a problem for me to use or possess a high capacity mag, even the 100 round drum, according to this--IF it was made before 1994. I heard mentioned the irony that when a police officer sells his high-capacity Glock, it puts another gun of the type legislators are so antsy about right back out for the public. In my mind, it is not so much what a firearm is, as who owns/operates it. Our law makes about as much sense as limiting the size of vehicular fuel tanks because some people have accidents while driving! This is a knotty problem, keeping unstable people from obtaining and using these tools in an irresponsible way, without restricting law-abiding as they exercise their 2nd Amendment rights.

Nonetheless, I'll work with this 30-shot mag either until it fits and functions properly, or I encounter an extra, pre-ban, unaltered SMG mag that I can afford.

Hmmm... I would say that the current 10-round drums are not particularly "readily restored or converted to accept, more than ten rounds of ammunition." It would take a lot of time and effort to extend the capacity from 10 to 100 rounds, but it could be accomplished. Is this, indeed, a loophole?

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by cirelaw

I'm unable to handle it safe. Since my fall CostaRico ten years ago causing a sub dura hematoma, 3 shoulder tears not to mention falling my doctors office an ortho no less fratured left ankle then a fall in my bathroon 3 years ago fracturing my right fibula. six month later the four screw holing my tibla broke in half. The big time reconstuction, 4 month in a rehab hospital. Ron Wood and cheered me up! I'll stick with my carbine. Ill never forget the get well from our friends and familys THANK YOU

Eric, I think I'm not the only one here trying to get you ramped up to have a little more fun.. Consider getting a hand creating a setup whereby you can experience these truly historical sensations. A bench rest and some sand/shot bags to stabilize the rifle, and maybe a comfy chair behind it all, should do the trick; you wouldn't have to deal with the weight.

I joined the forum around the time, maybe a little before, that you were having your last bout of mechanical surgery for the broken screw arrangement; then the rehab. I didn't forget, but hadn't heard specifically what your limits are nowadays. Nonetheless, I hope you are still able to gain some ground in the battle towards being as restored as possible after all those crashes. Keep up the good work, keep moving, keep pressing your limits as best possible, and keep having fun--most of all! Don't make me, of all people, come down there just to get you shootin' at least one Luger and your Tommy!

[CAP Black]

rhuff:

Would you care to sell any of those mags which you spoke of?
Jack

[rhuff]

Originally Posted by CAP Black

rhuff:

Would you care to sell any of those mags which you spoke of?
Jack

Not really. I plan to keep and continue to shoot my 1928 TSM, and having extra mags always seemed like a proper approach. I have an FBI hard case for it, and that takes up 4 new 20 rounders, and my "L" drum.


David,
Any ORIGINAL GI WWll TSM mag would be preban by defination. I can check, but last that I knew, places like CDNN and Sarco had them in excellent/new condition for not that much money.....just a thought.

[rhuff]

I am AMAZED, both CDNN and Sarco are out of TSM mags. Numrich has 30 rounders, but will NOT ship to NY. or any other state with mag restrictions. I guess that your best bet for an original TSM mag is to pick one up at a local gun show. Sorry, I tried.

[cirelaw]

THANK YOU FOR YOUR KIND WORDS! I think that might work. It went the withdrawl in a coma really worked, 12 years without a drink or a line. And a great Women who held my hand. Lugers replaced the bad money with good! I'm continuing my adventures in a book I'm working on 'Coma Wake-up Calls, A Stroke Of Luck' Previding practical ways to deal what I went through. Debbie said it was a heck of a way to detox! If anyone is going through a simular with them or their family member, I'm there at anytime. Debbie, a friend is half the battle! Thanks for being YOU!I'm now walking without a cane or walker ya!!!!!Driving is out of the question at least in this life!!

[rhuff]

David,

If you would have been with me today at a large gun show you could have purchased all of the 20 and 30 rd TSM mags that you wanted for $19.95-$26.95. Some were like new. Apparently the reason the folks that sell them (Sportsman Guide currently has 20 and 30 rounds for sale) won't ship to NY is that they somehow have to prove that they are preban mags. I could see how a person could get into a world of hurt shipping them into your state without proof of year of manufacture. That is a shame, but it is what the majority of the folks wanted, I guess.

[ithacaartist]

Yup, I just tried Sprortsman's Guide, and they won't ship the original GI mags into NYS...
The mags are unmarked, so how in the heck to tell, otherwise, who knows? I have a son who lives in Ohio, and after (if) I receive one of these through him, it would be the same as the one one Kahr sent--specifically as part of a NY package--for which I have the receipt. I understand sellers' concern about legality, but notice they go overboard sometimes in their efforts to avoid liabilities. Technically, it is correct that a 30 shot stick from WWII era is pre-1994 ban, but they choose to wimp out and not sell because of the unmarked nature of them, thus avoiding any question whatsoever.
Gun shows in NY State are pretty few and far between; dang, I just missed one in Syracuse this weekend and have no idea when another will happen.

[rhuff]

David,

Sounds like Ohio may be your best bet for a WWll mag. You are correct that there is no dating of manuf. on the mag, and some "official" in NYS could make things difficult if caught on a bad day, and wanted to prove a point. If there is a will, there is a way.....they say!!



Usually the larger gun shows list there dates and locations on the internet.

[Patronen]

[QUOTE=ithacaartist;220023
Gun shows in NY State are pretty few and far between; dang, I just missed one in Syracuse this weekend and have no idea when another will happen.[/QUOTE]

Rochester N.Y. Gunshow Sept. 22&23.