1911 - Page 2

sheepherder · 07-11-2012, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saab-bob

Postino
Its a small world. The first gun that I bought by myself was a Arcadia Machine & Tool AKA AMT Hardballer .45.

Bob, that was one of the biggest disappointments of my life (up to then). It had micrometer rear sight (modeled after the Bo-Mar) sunk/low mounted in the slide; Gold-Cup style front sight; skeletonized trigger; and a nice satin finish on all surfaces except the flats/sides. They were 'brushed'. I used LSA on it, and it functioned fine...except for that chamber...

I should have kept it and worked on it, but like I said, I was disappointed...

(There is a long angry story about how I ended up with that AMT 45, but now is not the time for that)...

padredan · 07-11-2012, 08:36 PM

the amt hardballer was a good concept at the time , but all were somewhat finicky and problomatic the quirks could be worked out but at the time quality parts were hard to come by, glad you hung on to yours and made a few changes. Colt 1911's in the 80's and 90's were allso quirky and pricey, why they lost the market to better built 1911's .

Patronen · 07-11-2012, 08:42 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUJfkaczxlI

All this 1911 talk and about the Hardballer made me want to post this

saab-bob · 07-12-2012, 01:51 AM

Postino
Sorry your AMT experience was not so good.

I just recently talked to a buddy who bought a AMT about the same time I did back in the 70's.He is one of those gun friends who can only talk about guns.

He used to shot his AMT alot as well,but he never installed a buffer and used to shot hardball thru it.He told me the slide had cracked on it!

He mumbled about how he should have followed my advise.

So maybe you made a good decision.

Over the years I have looked at lots of AMT Longslides like in the "Terminator" movie. Cool gun,but always thought it looked unbalanced.
That clip made me wistful for the good old days. I used to patronize B & B Sales( a huge gun store) in the San Fernando Valley in So Cal. Its now closed.I remember when they had a sale on Semi-Auto rifles. H & K ,CETME,Valmet,AR-15,FN FAL,SIG, Poly Tech AK all on sale for $500.00.Those where the days!

Bob

sheepherder · 07-12-2012, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saab-bob

He told me the slide had cracked on it!

Bob, I liked the looks but spending more on the AMT to get it up to the level of an off-the-shelf Colt didn't interest me, at the time. My buddy and I were shooting Winchester 52C's with Redfield Olympic sights and S&W Model 41's with the long barrel and we liked the out-of-the-box accuracy of those two. Buying something with what appeared to be close copies of the Gold Cup features and having any kind of problem was a real turn off. (Used condition notwithstanding).

The stainless Gold Cup was nice, but I could not get to like the Series 80 barrel bushing. Why Colt discontinued the collet bushing of the Series 70 is still a mystery to me. Both the Colt autos I have now are Series 70's [45 Gold Cup & 38 Super Gov't Model], and shoot much better than I can.

I understand Colt made a limited number of 38 Super Gold Cups...that would interest me...

alvin · 07-12-2012, 08:09 AM

Which one is more accurate, "National Match" or "Gold Cup" ?? If use Kimber as a reference gun, how do they compare with Kimber, in performance?

alanint · 07-12-2012, 08:09 AM

My 2 favorite 1911s are a Les Baer Premier II with a 1/2" at 50 yard guarrantee built by Les himself before passing and a Kimber Raptor II, neither of which I have ever had to sink a penny into.
My best recent purchase was a gunshop walk-in Colt 1911 made in 1918 someone had really hammered on. It was finished in BBQ grill paint. Even Thor passed on trying to restore it because of pitting in the slide grooves and elsewhere and the removal by some genius of all the US property marks. Nevertheless, I got it for $250, sold the original grips for $80, plus a pair of bakelite GI grips and sent it off to a friend for Parkerizing free of charge. With a small investment in some parts I now have a reasonably decent looking Colt 1911 I have $210 into.

pors12 · 07-12-2012, 09:58 AM

I must agree, for fine shooting there is nothing
better than a Baer ....

Also a very good workmanship .

best

Otto

sheepherder · 07-12-2012, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alvin

Which one is more accurate, "National Match" or "Gold Cup" ???

Someone else here probably knows the history of the National Match and Gold Cup 45's...I don't...

But all the NMGC's I have seen have both names...I'm pretty sure they didn't, in the past, but when & why they were combined is a mystery to me...

John Sabato · 07-13-2012, 11:40 AM

This is a repeat post for me... but since 1911's are the discussion topic, and I haven't seen one mentioned,

...Padre, I have a twin to your Remington Rand, but here is my personal favorite:

This is a Steel Framed Colt Combat Commander personally converted for me to true double-action by Lewis W. Seecamp Sr. in 1976.

Mine was probably one of the first guns he converted for sale.

This is my carry gun. She isn't a lightweight, but she will last for the long haul. If you ever see one... I recommend you buy it. The Seecamp double-action conversion was only done on the Steel version of the 1911A1 frame in either standard or Commander length.

It is a pretty unique conversion. I doubt he converted more than 50 or so. At some point the patent was sold to a company in New Jersey whose name I can't seem to remember and they attempted to market the gun in both blue and stainless, but I have no idea how successful they were or if they got past the prototype stage. Perhaps someone with a grounding on one of the 1911 websites might read this and fill us both in.

The conversion creatively hangs a mechanism similar in nature to the P-38 into machine cuts made into the right side of the frame and the double action trigger is added. The gun functions in both single and double action modes and in the event of a combat type loss of one of the double action parts, they can be readily removed and the gun returns to single action.

I would guess that the weight of the double action pull is similar to the P-38 but I have never measured it. The trigger is wide and smooth like a S&W combat revolver trigger and is a joy to use...

Lewis Seecamp's designs are still produced in smaller calibers, but this is the gun conversion that put him on the map. I had the conversion done shortly after an article appeared in one of the Gun magazines in the same year about his accomplishment.

-John

padredan · 07-13-2012, 04:34 PM

Outstanding, Seecamp got it right. Colt tried it in the nineties with the double eagle, didn't work for me as well as alot of others.
i have only seen two other seecamp 1911 conversions , both looked to be well done, have never fired one. You have your self a fine one and i tip my cover to you sir.

rolandtg · 07-13-2012, 06:34 PM

I just have an old RR GI mix-master. Cheap, but effective.

sheepherder · 07-13-2012, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolandtg

I just have an old RR GI mix-master. Cheap, but effective.

Looks good to me!

I've always wondered...What did the Germans (of either war) think of the M1911[A1]??? Was it a desirable souvenir??? Did they seek them out, look for rare mfgs, send them home to friends/relatives???

Is there, even now, a web site in Germany where they discuss captured M1911's and argue about their authenticity, look for original owners manuals, and even holsters???

(Do they argue about the rumored and rare Russian Contract M1911A1's, with the rare slide crest???)

rolandtg · 07-13-2012, 07:02 PM

I know your question is tongue-in-cheek but I imagine there's still more than a few US weapons in Germany and Russia, although I imagine, like in the UK, the gun laws in those countries restrict the casual collector much more than in this country.

sheepherder · 07-13-2012, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Sabato

This is a Steel Framed Colt Combat Commander personally converted for me to true double-action by Lewis W. Seecamp Sr. in 1976.

There is a pic of one with the sideplate removed & drawbar resting on the slide in Nonte's book Pistolsmithing...Not too clear (B&W pic)...I remember reading about the conversion, and Nonte states that the conversion only cost $100 (book is dated 1974)...

My inflation calculator says that is $466.16 in todays dollars...

Anybody got a good pic of one with the sidecover removed???

Ah! Here's one...Hmmmm...That's from an auction -

http://www.gunauction.com/buy/842330...-commander-.45

Went for $950...

alanint · 07-13-2012, 11:53 PM

[QUOTE=postino;216585]I've always wondered...What did the Germans (of either war) think of the M1911[A1]??? Was it a desirable souvenir??? Did they seek them out, look for rare mfgs, send them home to friends/relatives???

Several personal accounts I have read indicate that the Germans where VERY impressed by the .45, but by the pistol, not necessarily the TSMG or M3 Greasegun.

When prisoners or displaced persons after the war needed to be introduced to the muzzle of a 1911, they would smile and say, "grosse" and become immediately compliant. The Germans were very impressed by the caliber in a pistol, but found the Thompson heavy and cumbersome, versus their own SMG or STG offerings.
The TSMG was a prized souvenir mostly in North Africa, where the Germans were almost 100% motorized and did not have to carry them around. These were captured British 1921-28 Thompsons, with the vertical foregrip and the drum magazines. Germans loved this version in part because they were fascinated by the US gangster era, thanks to Hollywood films. They had little or no emotional connection to the standard GI 1928, M1 or M1A1 TSMG.

JCP · 07-14-2012, 11:39 AM

Unless it was very sudden, Les Baer is not dead. I spoke with him at the NRA convention in St. Louis a couple of months ago. We talked both guns and race cars. He is a Ford guy and my avatar shows a picture of my Chevy. Don't forget to add Ed Brown's guns into the mix. Joe

CavScoutEurope · 07-15-2012, 07:57 PM

I still own the first 1911A1 I ever shot. It was my God-father's fathers during the Second World War. My grandfather bought it from him with the understanding that when he passed on I would receive it, so now she sits in my gun safe, waiting for my son to be old enough to shoot her too.

CavScoutEurope · 07-16-2012, 12:56 PM

I'll try to post images of my 1911A1 later, it still has the rack number on it by the lanyard loop.

lugersrkewl · 07-30-2012, 07:41 PM

Update- Padre if you could weigh in here as well as anyone else who feels like it , thankyou

So I decided on a hi cap springfield but they arent available this year according to springfield

So I thought I would buy a range officer for the adjustable sight feature ( and cool grips ) and then I ran into the bushingless bull barrel feature.

How do you guys feel about this?

07-11-2012, 08:36 PM	#22
padredan User Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: louisiana Now, but from the Rebublic of Texas Posts: 937 Thanks: 429 Thanked 316 Times in 182 Posts	the amt hardballer was a good concept at the time , but all were somewhat finicky and problomatic the quirks could be worked out but at the time quality parts were hard to come by, glad you hung on to yours and made a few changes. Colt 1911's in the 80's and 90's were allso quirky and pricey, why they lost the market to better built 1911's . __________________ In this world nothing is free, except the grace of God

07-11-2012, 08:42 PM	#23
Patronen User Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 312 Thanks: 335 Thanked 93 Times in 70 Posts	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUJfkaczxlI All this 1911 talk and about the Hardballer made me want to post this __________________ Dave

07-12-2012, 01:51 AM	#24
saab-bob User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: So Cal Posts: 459 Thanks: 774 Thanked 143 Times in 87 Posts	Postino Sorry your AMT experience was not so good. I just recently talked to a buddy who bought a AMT about the same time I did back in the 70's.He is one of those gun friends who can only talk about guns. He used to shot his AMT alot as well,but he never installed a buffer and used to shot hardball thru it.He told me the slide had cracked on it! He mumbled about how he should have followed my advise. So maybe you made a good decision. Over the years I have looked at lots of AMT Longslides like in the "Terminator" movie. Cool gun,but always thought it looked unbalanced. That clip made me wistful for the good old days. I used to patronize B & B Sales( a huge gun store) in the San Fernando Valley in So Cal. Its now closed.I remember when they had a sale on Semi-Auto rifles. H & K ,CETME,Valmet,AR-15,FN FAL,SIG, Poly Tech AK all on sale for $500.00.Those where the days! Bob __________________ "I think,therefore I own guns"

07-12-2012, 09:58 AM	#28
pors12 User Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Austria Posts: 115 Thanks: 24 Thanked 59 Times in 21 Posts	I must agree, for fine shooting there is nothing better than a Baer .... Also a very good workmanship . best Otto Attached Thumbnails

07-13-2012, 11:40 AM	#30
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	This is a repeat post for me... but since 1911's are the discussion topic, and I haven't seen one mentioned, ...Padre, I have a twin to your Remington Rand, but here is my personal favorite: This is a Steel Framed Colt Combat Commander personally converted for me to true double-action by Lewis W. Seecamp Sr. in 1976. Mine was probably one of the first guns he converted for sale. This is my carry gun. She isn't a lightweight, but she will last for the long haul. If you ever see one... I recommend you buy it. The Seecamp double-action conversion was only done on the Steel version of the 1911A1 frame in either standard or Commander length. It is a pretty unique conversion. I doubt he converted more than 50 or so. At some point the patent was sold to a company in New Jersey whose name I can't seem to remember and they attempted to market the gun in both blue and stainless, but I have no idea how successful they were or if they got past the prototype stage. Perhaps someone with a grounding on one of the 1911 websites might read this and fill us both in. The conversion creatively hangs a mechanism similar in nature to the P-38 into machine cuts made into the right side of the frame and the double action trigger is added. The gun functions in both single and double action modes and in the event of a combat type loss of one of the double action parts, they can be readily removed and the gun returns to single action. I would guess that the weight of the double action pull is similar to the P-38 but I have never measured it. The trigger is wide and smooth like a S&W combat revolver trigger and is a joy to use... Lewis Seecamp's designs are still produced in smaller calibers, but this is the gun conversion that put him on the map. I had the conversion done shortly after an article appeared in one of the Gun magazines in the same year about his accomplishment. -John __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

07-12-2012, 08:09 AM	#26
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Which one is more accurate, "National Match" or "Gold Cup" ?? If use Kimber as a reference gun, how do they compare with Kimber, in performance?

07-12-2012, 08:09 AM	#27
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	My 2 favorite 1911s are a Les Baer Premier II with a 1/2" at 50 yard guarrantee built by Les himself before passing and a Kimber Raptor II, neither of which I have ever had to sink a penny into. My best recent purchase was a gunshop walk-in Colt 1911 made in 1918 someone had really hammered on. It was finished in BBQ grill paint. Even Thor passed on trying to restore it because of pitting in the slide grooves and elsewhere and the removal by some genius of all the US property marks. Nevertheless, I got it for $250, sold the original grips for $80, plus a pair of bakelite GI grips and sent it off to a friend for Parkerizing free of charge. With a small investment in some parts I now have a reasonably decent looking Colt 1911 I have $210 into.

07-13-2012, 04:34 PM	#31
padredan User Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: louisiana Now, but from the Rebublic of Texas Posts: 937 Thanks: 429 Thanked 316 Times in 182 Posts	Outstanding, Seecamp got it right. Colt tried it in the nineties with the double eagle, didn't work for me as well as alot of others. i have only seen two other seecamp 1911 conversions , both looked to be well done, have never fired one. You have your self a fine one and i tip my cover to you sir. __________________ In this world nothing is free, except the grace of God

07-13-2012, 06:34 PM	#32
rolandtg User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Hill Country Posts: 479 Thanks: 389 Thanked 265 Times in 114 Posts	I just have an old RR GI mix-master. Cheap, but effective. Attached Thumbnails

07-13-2012, 07:02 PM	#34
rolandtg User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Hill Country Posts: 479 Thanks: 389 Thanked 265 Times in 114 Posts	I know your question is tongue-in-cheek but I imagine there's still more than a few US weapons in Germany and Russia, although I imagine, like in the UK, the gun laws in those countries restrict the casual collector much more than in this country.

07-13-2012, 11:53 PM	#36
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	[QUOTE=postino;216585]I've always wondered...What did the Germans (of either war) think of the M1911[A1]??? Was it a desirable souvenir??? Did they seek them out, look for rare mfgs, send them home to friends/relatives??? Several personal accounts I have read indicate that the Germans where VERY impressed by the .45, but by the pistol, not necessarily the TSMG or M3 Greasegun. When prisoners or displaced persons after the war needed to be introduced to the muzzle of a 1911, they would smile and say, "grosse" and become immediately compliant. The Germans were very impressed by the caliber in a pistol, but found the Thompson heavy and cumbersome, versus their own SMG or STG offerings. The TSMG was a prized souvenir mostly in North Africa, where the Germans were almost 100% motorized and did not have to carry them around. These were captured British 1921-28 Thompsons, with the vertical foregrip and the drum magazines. Germans loved this version in part because they were fascinated by the US gangster era, thanks to Hollywood films. They had little or no emotional connection to the standard GI 1928, M1 or M1A1 TSMG. Last edited by alanint; 07-14-2012 at 07:11 AM.

07-14-2012, 11:39 AM	#37
JCP User Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Illinois Posts: 23 Thanks: 0 Thanked 10 Times in 5 Posts	Unless it was very sudden, Les Baer is not dead. I spoke with him at the NRA convention in St. Louis a couple of months ago. We talked both guns and race cars. He is a Ford guy and my avatar shows a picture of my Chevy. Don't forget to add Ed Brown's guns into the mix. Joe

07-15-2012, 07:57 PM	#38
CavScoutEurope User Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 86 Thanks: 102 Thanked 15 Times in 14 Posts	I still own the first 1911A1 I ever shot. It was my God-father's fathers during the Second World War. My grandfather bought it from him with the understanding that when he passed on I would receive it, so now she sits in my gun safe, waiting for my son to be old enough to shoot her too.

07-16-2012, 12:56 PM	#39
CavScoutEurope User Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 86 Thanks: 102 Thanked 15 Times in 14 Posts	I'll try to post images of my 1911A1 later, it still has the rack number on it by the lanyard loop.

07-30-2012, 07:41 PM	#40
lugersrkewl Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Ussr Posts: 425 Thanks: 198 Thanked 75 Times in 58 Posts	Update- Padre if you could weigh in here as well as anyone else who feels like it , thankyou So I decided on a hi cap springfield but they arent available this year according to springfield So I thought I would buy a range officer for the adjustable sight feature ( and cool grips ) and then I ran into the bushingless bull barrel feature. How do you guys feel about this? Last edited by lugersrkewl; 07-31-2012 at 08:30 AM.