What to look for to determine re-furbishing

[siegersallee]

Hi all,

I saw a WWII Japanese pistol that is in almost pristine condition. The seller says it is all original and I have no reason to doubt him.

Based upon some of the posts on this forum, I carefully studied the markings on the pistol. Only one of the marks has a halo, the other marks on it do not have halos. All of the marks are, however, correct to the pistol and are all matching.

So, the question, how can I determine just by visual inspection that a pistol's finish is original and not refurbished in any way.

BTW, the owner of this pistol is a board member and he could not account for the lack of halos either. We jointly decided to post this so we would both know the answer.

Richard

[Curly1]

Can you post pics?

[siegersallee]

Opps...I forgot to post a link to the ad in WTS:

Here it is: Nambu.

[Norme]

Hi Richard, You really need a Nambu specialist. Halos occur when numbers or marks are stamped after rust bluing, marks stamped prior to bluing do not show halos. For halos to prove anything you need to know if Nambus were rust blued or salt blued in the first place, and which, if any, marks were applied after bluing. Regards, Norm

[siegersallee]

Thanks Norme, I'll have to do some research.

[SteveM]

It looks good to me, appears to have been fired very little by looking at the bolt head.

[siegersallee]

Steve, thanks for the insight about the bolt head.


OK, Norme, here is what I found out about the bluing:

"...the pistol is made from steel and has a hot salt blue finish."

I am still looking to see if I can get info on when the marks are applied.

My thinking is that the serial number and arsenal marks were applied prior to bluing and the acceptance stamp applied after bluing. This theory accounts for the lack of halos on every mark except the acceptance stamp.

[DavidJayUden]

There are a lot of numbers to check on a Nambu, and total disassembly is required.
dju

[siegersallee]

I received more pictures just a bit ago.

These may help to say whether it is re-furbished, etc...

[CJS57]

I looked very carefully at that same gun last month with the intent to purchase it. It looks to be original finish to me. Only a hands on exam will tell for absolute sure. The grips are unnumbered as I recall so they are probably replacements. Same with the firing pin. They broke so often in the field they issued a spare with every gun! Still a nice gun and I would have it in my collection if it came my way!

[wlyon]

Curious where you found that each luger was issued with a spare firing pin. Never heard of this? Bill

[Ron Wood]

Bill,
He is talking about the Nambu.

[wlyon]

Sorry. Must be an age thing. Bill

[siegersallee]

Thanks for all the good info and analysis.

I have pretty much decided to move forward with the purchase with the caveat that I will take the Nambu to the 13 July Atlanta International Military Show at the Cobb Civic Center in Marietta GA.

There is usually a Japanese expert or two in attendance; I will get them to do an analysis of the condition. If it passes muster, and I am 98% sure that it will, then I am a happy camper.

Again, thanks all for the good info.

Richard

[alvin]

I feel that it's not common to find professionally restored Type 14, probably due to the market price has not attracted much activities yet. And, many T14 are in nice original shape, which must be bring-back from Japan mainland after the war.

===

[Edit] Grandpa, Papa, and Baby Nambu have different story though.

[Patronen]

One thing else to consider with Bringback Japanese handguns like the T-14 was the availability/lack of factory made ammo post war. They were not used as much post war as say a Luger where 9mm has been off the shelf for years. Other than the plated ones I've seen in the flesh, Only one I encountered was completely redone and you could tell it was a mile away.

[DavidJayUden]

$1 per round for ammo. But once you buy a Nambu, you HAVE to shoot it. Or at least I did. And they are SWEET to shoot.
dju

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by siegersallee

Steve, thanks for the insight about the bolt head.


OK, Norme, here is what I found out about the bluing:

"...the pistol is made from steel and has a hot salt blue finish."

I am still looking to see if I can get info on when the marks are applied.

My thinking is that the serial number and arsenal marks were applied prior to bluing and the acceptance stamp applied after bluing. This theory accounts for the lack of halos on every mark except the acceptance stamp.

Hi:

I've never seen an early trigger guard model in hot salts. I've only seen a very high quality rust blue applied to these beautiful, well designed and manufactured pistols.

Also, the price is way too high!!!!!

Sieger

[siegersallee]

Hi sieger (victor, winner),

I totally agree on the price issue, that is why I am very hesitant.
I feel, given the current market, that the top dollar on a Nambu, even in this condition, is high tens to low elevens.

This may yet deter the purchase.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by siegersallee

I feel, given the current market, that the top dollar on a Nambu, even in this condition, is high tens to low elevens.

Uh, hundreds?...It is my feeling that even if this is a 'dipped' re-blue, it is a very good one (no buffing!) and worth what the seller is asking...that said, as an accumulator, not a collector, I would accept it either way (original or re-blued).

I would be hesitant to accept a gun show 'expert' opinion...But you will find out how much that expert knows in a few quick minutes of talking with him...