Shattuck Lugers

ithacaartist · 05-22-2012, 01:00 PM

I think I read here that Ralph Shattuck's estate basically liquidated the bulk, if not all, of his Lugers at auction. I can't recall the figure given, but there was large number, to say the least. (...also read that he liked to stock at least 1500 just for selling!) Up to now, I know he was considered a friend to some on the forum, and he definitely was man of Luger knowledge, acquired first-hand from many of the original personages involved with the Parabellum. But there are intimations that Ralph's selling behavior could have been, let's say, of a tad more polish in its Sterling. I mean to cast no aspersions on the departed, but simply wish to establish an accurate view of the man and his Luger activities. Sort of a biographical question...

Does anyone know what exactly happened with the Shattuck Lugers? The reason I'm asking is that I won two at RIAC last year, a 1906 AE and a 1917/1920 DWM, and was curious as to whether or not these had passed through Ralph's hands or shop. I've posted before about the refinsh jobs these have had, describing the evidence of their having been blasted by some medium. This dates the refinsh to no earlier than when blasting technology came into use in firearm refinishing. So, this may or may not account for enough time, very generally, to establish the wear displayed by the pistols, particularly on the DWM. I've heard that holster wear can be simulated by buffing a Luger with a leather belt to thin the finish on the high spots and edges. To what extent is this practice used? (I can already guess only by what kind of seller; I'm without the knowledge to "pin" such tendencies on anyone in particular, with only one exception that I would disrecommend.)

Purchasing at auction leaves me empty in one respect. My acquisitions so far have no provenance/story behind them, save for what their configuration/condition might hint at. I think I stand with others who want to know more about their pistols' origins and histories, regardless of what it was. This of course won't affect the status of shooters like mine as collectible, but it would be nice to know.

With the passing of Ralph's beloved wife, I felt a loss because though she may have had little to do with the collecting community on a basis other than personal, she was close to one of the charter class--if not one of the Luger University founders. We survivors are just that much farther away from the source, though it would seem that Ralph Shattuck's legacy, reputation, and legend will continue.

DP

Ron Wood · 05-22-2012, 01:12 PM

Ralph's "selling stock" was inventoried and dispersed in a number of ways, primarily through auctions. I am not sure a detailed copy of the inventory identifying the pieces by type and serial number exists or is accessable.
Ralph's personal collection, which contained his most rare and valuable items, has been placed in storage by his heirs and their future is uncertain.

Norme · 05-22-2012, 01:51 PM

Hi David, I'm sending you a personal message. Regards, Norm

Railsplitter · 06-03-2012, 12:19 PM

From what I understand Mr. Wood's assessment is accurate. Unfortunately nobody in the Shattuck family seemed to share Ralph's passion to the point of wanting to keep the business. I expressed to Ralph my concern that there wasn't anybody "In the pipeline" on several occasions. Ralph told me that for the most part it (his collection/inventory/gun room) was viewed as "Clutter". He was not smiling when he said that. At his wake I do recall those who were to handle Ralph's personal collection saying they were hoping to find someone who could write "One big check".

cirelaw · 06-03-2012, 02:10 PM

What happens to Ralph lugers are moot! Any that he sold was neither certificate or receipt. My 7 lugers fom Ralph were just that a luger with no descrition or an appraisel. If I were to sell of his guns I would keep its providence to my selve! George Anderson is now assisting me with pefect items and a reputation flawless! Stick to the Saints of luger and you might never be burn't! I like lugering in house ie Ed Tinker at Legacy true sweetheart and friend. Being a trial lawyer I seek the obviouis. Those who post thereselve on our forums are most generally honest and forth! Ther are those who buy through a classsified. There are more fixed luger out there. Thank God for Ron Wood who helped mone then anyone to expose the fakes. One important that you look research and ask questions. My last Luger I purched before his death I bought #7932 and is listed and described he Kreighoff lists, although somone might disagree!

Edward Tinker · 06-03-2012, 02:28 PM

'Some' of the sn's were collected, but it was primarily types and approx values.

I can't give more information than that, as we have a confidentiality agreement with the Shattuck estate.

So, some of the guns at Rock Island were the inventory, and others were 'normal' auction pieces from other individuals. It is interesting to note that over the three auctions where they sold the 'inventory' (Note inventory and the personal collection are separate items), that RIA did not state they came from the Shattuck inventory.....

05-22-2012, 01:00 PM	#1
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,368 Thanks: 7,432 Thanked 2,610 Times in 1,378 Posts	Shattuck Lugers I think I read here that Ralph Shattuck's estate basically liquidated the bulk, if not all, of his Lugers at auction. I can't recall the figure given, but there was large number, to say the least. (...also read that he liked to stock at least 1500 just for selling!) Up to now, I know he was considered a friend to some on the forum, and he definitely was man of Luger knowledge, acquired first-hand from many of the original personages involved with the Parabellum. But there are intimations that Ralph's selling behavior could have been, let's say, of a tad more polish in its Sterling. I mean to cast no aspersions on the departed, but simply wish to establish an accurate view of the man and his Luger activities. Sort of a biographical question... Does anyone know what exactly happened with the Shattuck Lugers? The reason I'm asking is that I won two at RIAC last year, a 1906 AE and a 1917/1920 DWM, and was curious as to whether or not these had passed through Ralph's hands or shop. I've posted before about the refinsh jobs these have had, describing the evidence of their having been blasted by some medium. This dates the refinsh to no earlier than when blasting technology came into use in firearm refinishing. So, this may or may not account for enough time, very generally, to establish the wear displayed by the pistols, particularly on the DWM. I've heard that holster wear can be simulated by buffing a Luger with a leather belt to thin the finish on the high spots and edges. To what extent is this practice used? (I can already guess only by what kind of seller; I'm without the knowledge to "pin" such tendencies on anyone in particular, with only one exception that I would disrecommend.) Purchasing at auction leaves me empty in one respect. My acquisitions so far have no provenance/story behind them, save for what their configuration/condition might hint at. I think I stand with others who want to know more about their pistols' origins and histories, regardless of what it was. This of course won't affect the status of shooters like mine as collectible, but it would be nice to know. With the passing of Ralph's beloved wife, I felt a loss because though she may have had little to do with the collecting community on a basis other than personal, she was close to one of the charter class--if not one of the Luger University founders. We survivors are just that much farther away from the source, though it would seem that Ralph Shattuck's legacy, reputation, and legend will continue. DP

05-22-2012, 01:12 PM	#2
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,035 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,242 Times in 1,719 Posts	Ralph's "selling stock" was inventoried and dispersed in a number of ways, primarily through auctions. I am not sure a detailed copy of the inventory identifying the pieces by type and serial number exists or is accessable. Ralph's personal collection, which contained his most rare and valuable items, has been placed in storage by his heirs and their future is uncertain. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

06-03-2012, 02:10 PM	#5
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,138 Times in 2,176 Posts	What happens to Ralph lugers are moot! Any that he sold was neither certificate or receipt. My 7 lugers fom Ralph were just that a luger with no descrition or an appraisel. If I were to sell of his guns I would keep its providence to my selve! George Anderson is now assisting me with pefect items and a reputation flawless! Stick to the Saints of luger and you might never be burn't! I like lugering in house ie Ed Tinker at Legacy true sweetheart and friend. Being a trial lawyer I seek the obviouis. Those who post thereselve on our forums are most generally honest and forth! Ther are those who buy through a classsified. There are more fixed luger out there. Thank God for Ron Wood who helped mone then anyone to expose the fakes. One important that you look research and ask questions. My last Luger I purched before his death I bought #7932 and is listed and described he Kreighoff lists, although somone might disagree! Attached Thumbnails

06-03-2012, 02:28 PM	#6
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,960 Thanks: 2,062 Thanked 4,591 Times in 2,114 Posts	'Some' of the sn's were collected, but it was primarily types and approx values. I can't give more information than that, as we have a confidentiality agreement with the Shattuck estate. So, some of the guns at Rock Island were the inventory, and others were 'normal' auction pieces from other individuals. It is interesting to note that over the three auctions where they sold the 'inventory' (Note inventory and the personal collection are separate items), that RIA did not state they came from the Shattuck inventory..... __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

05-22-2012, 01:51 PM	#3
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,607 Times in 933 Posts	Hi David, I'm sending you a personal message. Regards, Norm

06-03-2012, 12:19 PM	#4
Railsplitter User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler, AZ Posts: 112 Thanks: 0 Thanked 13 Times in 11 Posts	From what I understand Mr. Wood's assessment is accurate. Unfortunately nobody in the Shattuck family seemed to share Ralph's passion to the point of wanting to keep the business. I expressed to Ralph my concern that there wasn't anybody "In the pipeline" on several occasions. Ralph told me that for the most part it (his collection/inventory/gun room) was viewed as "Clutter". He was not smiling when he said that. At his wake I do recall those who were to handle Ralph's personal collection saying they were hoping to find someone who could write "One big check".