1941 Military Luger by Mauser? (Pic heavy)

Timah! · 01-25-2012, 04:03 PM

I am a new collector and have decided to take the plunge and purchace my first. I'm not too sure what I have and any insight is much appreciated. I have a few concerns... The first is the serial number on the left receiver. At first glance, it appears to read 3301. Upon further inspection the 0 seems to be a stamped over to cover another 1. Perhaps the original serial number was 3311? My second concern is the font of the silver piece on the left side. It LOOKS like 02 but if you look closely, it is infact 01 but the font of the 1 (looks like a stubbier version of this 1 font) is different from the other 1s which have the subtle hook at the top and a verticle and widening down stroke. My third concern is the other serial numbers. 34 appears multiple times. I believe I read in the FAQ section a while back that it was not uncommon for some of the serial numbers to be a digit up from the first two numbers of the original (ex. 3301 having 34 on some of the matching parts). I read recently in the FAQ that all military Lugers have the last two digits only. My final question is the overall condition and desireability (if that's a word) of the piece. I have a holster (minus the tool) for it which I deem to be in very good to excelent condition (but what do I know?). Also, I have two magazines serial numbered 8797 and 9290 both with various stamps which both include the stick-figure eagle. I have included many pictures and can aways take more if closer inspection is needed.

Norme · 01-25-2012, 04:33 PM

Hi Tim, Welcome to the forum! I'm sorry to have to be the bearer of bad news, but your Luger is mismatched. It appears to have been assembled from two different guns (at least), one numbered 3301b, and the other with a serial number ending in 34. It's likely though, that it's a good shooter, so enjoy it and hopefully your next one will be more collectible. Regards, Norm

alanint · 01-25-2012, 05:03 PM

The letter suffix looks more like a "V" than a "B" to me??

wlyon · 01-25-2012, 05:15 PM

Tim
Norme has given you the correct story. This is what we call a shooter class. If you paid for a collector grade I would try and get a refund. Shooter grades run $700-900. If the holster is in good shape $200-250. With certain year Mausers the number inside the sideplate will be generally one number above or below the serial number. All other numbers will be the full serial number or the last two digits. Bill

Timah! · 01-26-2012, 03:06 PM

Thanks gentlemen for the info. I probably over paid for it, but such is life. I'll know better in the future. I was kind of hoping I'd be able to take it to the range without being too worried! Now is it a better idea to purchace slower rounds rater than the modern "hot" rounds that were not yet invented when the gun was manufactured?

wlyon · 01-26-2012, 03:22 PM

Tim
You only overpaid if your unhappy with it or it isn't what you wanted.

spartacus38 · 01-26-2012, 04:05 PM

Use Winchester 115 gr FMJ in the white box (available at Walmart) if you are going to shoot it.
Bob

mrerick · 01-26-2012, 04:17 PM

Use ammo like Winchester's white box 115gn 9mm FMJ ammo you can find at Wal Mart and other sporting goods or gun stores.

Avoid anything surplus that might be machine gun ammo (it's rather hot) or things marked "NATO" standard. They are hot too.

Be sure to inspect and clean your Luger before and after shooting it.

I like WW-II era Lugers. The metallurgy was excellent and Mauser's workmanship was generally good.

Since the toggle train came from a different pistol, it would have to have been properly fitted to the receiver, frame, trigger plate and trigger. These were generally hand fit when a pistol was manufactured. There are very few good gunsmiths with extensive Luger experience.

How does the action and trigger feel? Is it reliable, tight and smooth?

Also, if you post pictures of your holster, including edge on views of the left side, the inside and out, we can let you know if it looks original or reproduction.

Marc

Timah! · 01-27-2012, 09:44 AM

Thank you for the ammo reference. I will post pictures of the holster soon. Hopefully there will be better news on that. As far as the mismatching of the Luger, what does that indicate? The pistol was used and became damaged sonehow? What are the chances that something like this was acutally used in the war?

Timah! · 01-27-2012, 09:49 AM

These are the pics I have on hand, I will post more shortly...

Timah! · 01-27-2012, 09:52 AM

Pics didn't upload the 1st time...

Timah! · 01-27-2012, 09:55 AM

Oh, btw, mrerick, to answer your question, as far as I can tell, the trigger pull and action seems smooth and fluid.

Timah! · 01-27-2012, 09:57 AM

I wish I could just remember to post all of my questions in 1 post... Does anyone have an answer on why the font of the number 1 on the last pic is different from the others...???

Norme · 01-27-2012, 10:18 AM

Hi Tim, I know some collectors obsess over font variations but they are rarely significant. The Mauser factory was vast and employed many thousand workers. It's likely that each fitter had his own set of number punches on his workbench and differences in font are quite common, often on the same gun. You will find flat topped 3's mixed with round topped 3's, and footed 1's mixed with un-footed 1's, as on your gun and the one shown below. Regards, Norm

John Sabato · 01-27-2012, 11:09 AM

There are many ways in which guns became mismatched. One is by repairs, and another common way was stupid soldiers or armorers who disassembled several pistols at once for cleaning or repair and then reassembled them without checking that the parts all came from the same gun...

alanint · 01-27-2012, 11:33 AM

Colt Single Action Army collectors call these "Campfire" switches. More specifically when a part is only a couple of numbers off the rest of the gun.

The assumption is that this mismatching occured around the campfire at night, when soldiers would spread a blanket out, toss their individual gun's parts in front of them as they cleaned and a neighboring troop would pick up a cilinder or other part, which did not match his individual weapon. Since units were often issued serial number blocks of weapons, the mismatched part was often very close in serial range to the balance of the gun.

This may be the case with troops cleaning Lugers together in WW2

01-25-2012, 04:03 PM	#1
Timah! User Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 7 Thanks: 9 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	1941 Military Luger by Mauser? (Pic heavy) I am a new collector and have decided to take the plunge and purchace my first. I'm not too sure what I have and any insight is much appreciated. I have a few concerns... The first is the serial number on the left receiver. At first glance, it appears to read 3301. Upon further inspection the 0 seems to be a stamped over to cover another 1. Perhaps the original serial number was 3311? My second concern is the font of the silver piece on the left side. It LOOKS like 02 but if you look closely, it is infact 01 but the font of the 1 (looks like a stubbier version of this 1 font) is different from the other 1s which have the subtle hook at the top and a verticle and widening down stroke. My third concern is the other serial numbers. 34 appears multiple times. I believe I read in the FAQ section a while back that it was not uncommon for some of the serial numbers to be a digit up from the first two numbers of the original (ex. 3301 having 34 on some of the matching parts). I read recently in the FAQ that all military Lugers have the last two digits only. My final question is the overall condition and desireability (if that's a word) of the piece. I have a holster (minus the tool) for it which I deem to be in very good to excelent condition (but what do I know?). Also, I have two magazines serial numbered 8797 and 9290 both with various stamps which both include the stick-figure eagle. I have included many pictures and can aways take more if closer inspection is needed. Attached Thumbnails Attached Images

01-25-2012, 05:15 PM	#4
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,655 Thanks: 3,212 Thanked 2,619 Times in 971 Posts	Tim Norme has given you the correct story. This is what we call a shooter class. If you paid for a collector grade I would try and get a refund. Shooter grades run $700-900. If the holster is in good shape $200-250. With certain year Mausers the number inside the sideplate will be generally one number above or below the serial number. All other numbers will be the full serial number or the last two digits. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

01-26-2012, 03:22 PM	#6
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,655 Thanks: 3,212 Thanked 2,619 Times in 971 Posts	Tim You only overpaid if your unhappy with it or it isn't what you wanted. __________________ Bill Lyon

01-26-2012, 04:17 PM	#8
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,920 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,135 Times in 1,518 Posts	Use ammo like Winchester's white box 115gn 9mm FMJ ammo you can find at Wal Mart and other sporting goods or gun stores. Avoid anything surplus that might be machine gun ammo (it's rather hot) or things marked "NATO" standard. They are hot too. Be sure to inspect and clean your Luger before and after shooting it. I like WW-II era Lugers. The metallurgy was excellent and Mauser's workmanship was generally good. Since the toggle train came from a different pistol, it would have to have been properly fitted to the receiver, frame, trigger plate and trigger. These were generally hand fit when a pistol was manufactured. There are very few good gunsmiths with extensive Luger experience. How does the action and trigger feel? Is it reliable, tight and smooth? Also, if you post pictures of your holster, including edge on views of the left side, the inside and out, we can let you know if it looks original or reproduction. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

01-27-2012, 09:49 AM	#10
Timah! User Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 7 Thanks: 9 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hoster pics These are the pics I have on hand, I will post more shortly...

01-25-2012, 04:33 PM	#2
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,607 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Tim, Welcome to the forum! I'm sorry to have to be the bearer of bad news, but your Luger is mismatched. It appears to have been assembled from two different guns (at least), one numbered 3301b, and the other with a serial number ending in 34. It's likely though, that it's a good shooter, so enjoy it and hopefully your next one will be more collectible. Regards, Norm

01-25-2012, 05:03 PM	#3
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	The letter suffix looks more like a "V" than a "B" to me??

01-26-2012, 03:06 PM	#5
Timah! User Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 7 Thanks: 9 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks gentlemen for the info. I probably over paid for it, but such is life. I'll know better in the future. I was kind of hoping I'd be able to take it to the range without being too worried! Now is it a better idea to purchace slower rounds rater than the modern "hot" rounds that were not yet invented when the gun was manufactured?

01-26-2012, 04:05 PM	#7
spartacus38 Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: South Lake Tahoe,CA. Posts: 695 Thanks: 0 Thanked 70 Times in 56 Posts	Use Winchester 115 gr FMJ in the white box (available at Walmart) if you are going to shoot it. Bob

01-27-2012, 09:44 AM	#9
Timah! User Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 7 Thanks: 9 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thank you for the ammo reference. I will post pictures of the holster soon. Hopefully there will be better news on that. As far as the mismatching of the Luger, what does that indicate? The pistol was used and became damaged sonehow? What are the chances that something like this was acutally used in the war?

01-27-2012, 09:52 AM	#11
Timah! User Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 7 Thanks: 9 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	...try that again Pics didn't upload the 1st time... Attached Thumbnails

01-27-2012, 09:55 AM	#12
Timah! User Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 7 Thanks: 9 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Oh, btw, mrerick, to answer your question, as far as I can tell, the trigger pull and action seems smooth and fluid.

01-27-2012, 09:57 AM	#13
Timah! User Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 7 Thanks: 9 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I wish I could just remember to post all of my questions in 1 post... Does anyone have an answer on why the font of the number 1 on the last pic is different from the others...???

01-27-2012, 10:18 AM	#14
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,607 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Tim, I know some collectors obsess over font variations but they are rarely significant. The Mauser factory was vast and employed many thousand workers. It's likely that each fitter had his own set of number punches on his workbench and differences in font are quite common, often on the same gun. You will find flat topped 3's mixed with round topped 3's, and footed 1's mixed with un-footed 1's, as on your gun and the one shown below. Regards, Norm Attached Thumbnails

01-27-2012, 11:09 AM	#15
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	There are many ways in which guns became mismatched. One is by repairs, and another common way was stupid soldiers or armorers who disassembled several pistols at once for cleaning or repair and then reassembled them without checking that the parts all came from the same gun... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

01-27-2012, 11:33 AM	#16
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	Colt Single Action Army collectors call these "Campfire" switches. More specifically when a part is only a couple of numbers off the rest of the gun. The assumption is that this mismatching occured around the campfire at night, when soldiers would spread a blanket out, toss their individual gun's parts in front of them as they cleaned and a neighboring troop would pick up a cilinder or other part, which did not match his individual weapon. Since units were often issued serial number blocks of weapons, the mismatched part was often very close in serial range to the balance of the gun. This may be the case with troops cleaning Lugers together in WW2