The M1906 Russian Contract Controversy Strikes Again

[Vlim]

Ron, thanks

It's actually quite simple: If the pistols were covered by the cartel agreement, DWM would not have been enabled, or allowed, to supply luger pistols to Bulgaria, at least not without consent from Steyr-Mannlicher, in the pre-1914 era.

[LugerVern]

The 1908-1909 time frame is correct, but what that means to us is still up in the air. It helps Albert's case but doesn't hurt the other theories. We have a very very small number of guns that look OK, and many that are obvious fakes.

We know that DWM made very small contracts as small as 300 guns, so a small number of original examples would not be unusual , also both the Russians and Bulgarians are known to make use of items for a long time and a refinished gun is both possible and expected in both cases. So this might explain some of the " fakes" we love to point out.

So here we sit, we haven't found any thing new in a year or so and the best have been at it pretty hard ( Albert, Ed, Ron)

This is a great gun to study in detail.
I honestly like the fact that I have not been able to prove them all fake, even though there are times I think they are.
Every hobby needs such an example, it would be boring otherwise.

Vern

[Norme]

So here we sit, we haven't found any thing new in a year or so and the best have been at it pretty hard ( Albert, Ed, Ron)

Hi Vern, Thats not quite true. Since this issue was last thrashed out , the new Görtz/Sturgess book has been published. Dr Sturgess throws his not inconsiderable weight on the side of the Russian commercial theory. I know that this will not impress Albert, but I think it does tilt the scales. Best regards, Norm

[Imperial Arms]

Originally Posted by Norme

So here we sit, we haven't found any thing new in a year or so and the best have been at it pretty hard ( Albert, Ed, Ron)

Hi Vern, Thats not quite true. Since this issue was last thrashed out , the new Görtz/Sturgess book has been published. Dr Sturgess throws his not inconsiderable weight on the side of the Russian commercial theory. I know that this will not impress Albert, but I think it does tilt the scales. Best regards, Norm

Norm, what has not been performed by the critics is deep 'detective' work on this topic. The critics only 'ammo' is a defensive position only stating that the 'Bulgarian theory' is conjecture. It seems that the 'Russian theory' only gives the critics some form of comfort with regards to errors made in the past. If Kenyon agrees with me that the 'Bulgarian theory' has more truth/substance than compared to the old shaky 'Russian theory', what is the problem with the critics believing a much stronger theory? Here is a promenant author accepting a mistake which the critics cannot otherwise handle. It basically means that the critics wish to continue believing in wrong information twisted by other 'experts' when they do not want to look deeper into the culture and heritage of Germany during the imperial era. I agree that 'business is business', but I do think that the Germans would compromise their reputation by selling a foreign government/military a small quantity of surplus firearms during the Imperial era. Such a situation would have placed a large stain on the DWM factory. Whatever a foreign military did with their pistols after delivery is their business.

Albert

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Imperial Arms

Here is a promenant author accepting a mistake which the critics cannot otherwise handle.

What mistake is that???

It basically means that the critics wish to continue believing in wrong information...

Which wrong information is that???

[Imperial Arms]

Originally Posted by postino

What mistake is that???



Which wrong information is that???

The mistake of identifying the Luger pistol with crossed rifles on the chamber as a Russian Contract Luger. Furthermore, Mr. Kenyon had overlooked the fact that crossed rifles normally refer to an Infantry regiment. If he had recognized this detail when he wrote the book, I suppose that he would have gotten it right as a another Bulgarian contract pistol, especially when these pistols have Bulgarian markings - there is nothing Russian on it! Unfortunately, what we learn today cannot be applied 50 years ago and critics will be critics.

The wrong information which was originally written in the book 'Lugers at Random' about the M1906 Russian Luger that was repeated by other authors in future Luger books.