My father's luger collection amassed over 50 years

Markdk · 09-09-2011, 09:39 PM

Hi - Over the past 50 years, my father built a luger (and mauser) collection that numbers nearly 60 pieces. Many of the pistols are in mint or near mint condition.

He has decided to liquidate his entire collection through the James Julia Auction house (the auction will take place on October 4th and 5th) - I thought the members of this forum would be interested in the auction, given the superior condition and rarity of a number of the lugers in his collection and now being offered. Some of the highlights of the collection are:

-1893 LOEWE BORCHARDT WITH MATCHING STOCK
-COMMERCIAL BOLO MAUSER WITH MATCHING HOLSTER/STOCK
-DWM 1902 LUGER CARBINE WITH ORIGINAL LEATHER CASE
-DWM 1900 AMERICAN EAGLE LUGER WITH IDEAL STOCK AND GRIPS
-DWM 1902 AMERICAN EAGLE FAT BARREL LUGER
-DWM 1900 BULGARIAN LUGER
-DWM 1920 CARBINE WITH STOCK

Here is a link to the first session of the auction, which has photos and detailed descriptions (from an independent expert) of many of his Lugers (see lots 1072-1142, which include most of his pistols)

http://jamesdjulia.com/auctions/div_....asp?pageREQ=1

I am sure if you have any questions, I can his answers and post them.

Mark

spartacus38 · 09-09-2011, 10:05 PM

Hi Mark,
Thank you for the info;I will be bidding.
Bob

Michael Zeleny · 09-10-2011, 10:00 AM

Very impressive. I will bid early and often.

Markdk · 09-10-2011, 10:21 AM

Thanks Michael & Bob - if you have any questions, I will forward to my father. I really don't know much about Lugers, but the independent expert who graded the guns (and he was extremely conservative) in terms of their condition (as written in the description) has seen thousands of Lugers. He said that his Borchardt was the best example he has ever seen (in terms of condition and originality).

Mark

Hugo Borchardt · 09-10-2011, 10:53 AM

I'll attend. Take it easy on me Mr. Zelaney!

Ron Wood · 09-10-2011, 11:40 AM

Mark,
Thanks for the heads-up. Your father's Borchardt is a new serial number for the data base...much appreciated.
Ron

barry · 09-10-2011, 12:47 PM

I've developed a habit of trusting the gun descriptions of some auction houses and a total "NEVER" with other houses. I've never dealt with the James D. Julia auction house. Are their gun descriptions accurate and honest? -Barry

alanint · 09-10-2011, 02:37 PM

Judging by the meticulous references to small defects for most of the models, I would at least feel well informed when bidding with Julia.

Markdk · 09-10-2011, 03:24 PM

In terms of condition, my father went into this thinking that a large portion of his collection was in mint condition. He was told the independent expert was going to be very conservative for the very reason you raise - they don't want any surprises - so on some of the guns that my father thought were truly mint, the expert found and pointed out the flaws. His descriptions, from what I understand, are accurate and conservative (making his comment about the Borshardt all the more impressive).

So, as I mentioned before, while I am no expert, I believe these are highly accurate descriptions - so that someone doesn't buy it and then get disappointed with the pistol when it arrives. I will also tell you that the expert found that a couple of the lugers my father thought were in mint condition were refinished and thus couldnt be considered mint (and this is noted in the description). Also, the expert found that the Russian one of one hundred (lot 1106) that my father bought years ago thinking it was truly one of the 100 is actually a reproduction. My father, who has gained an extensive Luger knowledge over the 50 years that he has colleccted and is a sophisticated Luger buyer, had no idea - he truly believed it was one of the 100. Needless to say, 1106 makes full disclosure.

I just spoke with my father to urge him to register here so that he can monitor this post to answer any questions that you may have. I believe he will be signing in later today.

Mark

nukem556 · 09-10-2011, 04:09 PM

would be interesting to find out who sold your father the......ahem......."reproduction" Russian

Edward Tinker · 09-10-2011, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nukem556

would be interesting to find out who sold your father the......ahem......."reproduction" Russian

not fair

It is only the last few years (10-15) that many folks have considered russians as repros ~~ I still believe that Russia bought lugers

nukem556 · 09-10-2011, 04:41 PM

Didn't mean to be unfair, it's just a confusing issue....I know the controversy exists about the reality of these pistols..... I'm just wondering if the appraiser decided, as it sounds in the listing, that Russians ARE a legit variation, and this one was created to mimick one.

sheepherder · 09-10-2011, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

It is only the last few years (10-15) that many folks have considered russians as repros ~~ I still believe that Russia bought lugers

+ 1

mrerick · 09-11-2011, 09:41 AM

As a relatively new Luger collector, I would recommend the Julia auction listing photographs for study.

If they are conservative estimates of condition, the higher resolution photographs provide a great reference for understanding the finish condition of my own collection and Lugers that I examine in the future.

Marc

Ron Wood · 09-11-2011, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nukem556

Didn't mean to be unfair, it's just a confusing issue....I know the controversy exists about the reality of these pistols..... I'm just wondering if the appraiser decided, as it sounds in the listing, that Russians ARE a legit variation, and this one was created to mimick one.

That is my take on it. The "Russians" are legitimate and this one is made up from another gun to look like a Russian.

command450 · 09-22-2011, 10:18 AM

Your father made some awesome choices !!!

that is a stunning carbine/case set!!

not to mention the other items at the auction for sale

Markdk · 09-27-2011, 10:04 PM

thanks - I know he had mixed feelings on auctioning his collection...

Imperial Arms · 09-28-2011, 04:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

That is my take on it. The "Russians" are legitimate and this one is made up from another gun to look like a Russian.

Some people never learn

Explain this baffling situation - why would the Russian military order a contract of Luger pistols specifically requesting for Bulgarian markings in addition to an emblem on the chamber that has no connection to the Russian empire? If the Russian contract Lugers have crossed rifles on the chamber, why not the AE Test Trial Lugers (for the cavalry) having crossed swords on the chamber?

Norme · 09-28-2011, 04:38 AM

Hi Albert, Welcome back, we missed you! I'm amused that a mere reference to a Russian Luger is enough to waken the sleeping tiger. Best regards, Norm

Imperial Arms · 09-28-2011, 04:46 AM

Moi, a sleeping tiger...I'm a sweet pussssy cat

It always good to keep other people on their toes!

Cheers,
Albert

09-09-2011, 09:39 PM	#1
Markdk User Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	My father's luger collection amassed over 50 years Hi - Over the past 50 years, my father built a luger (and mauser) collection that numbers nearly 60 pieces. Many of the pistols are in mint or near mint condition. He has decided to liquidate his entire collection through the James Julia Auction house (the auction will take place on October 4th and 5th) - I thought the members of this forum would be interested in the auction, given the superior condition and rarity of a number of the lugers in his collection and now being offered. Some of the highlights of the collection are: -1893 LOEWE BORCHARDT WITH MATCHING STOCK -COMMERCIAL BOLO MAUSER WITH MATCHING HOLSTER/STOCK -DWM 1902 LUGER CARBINE WITH ORIGINAL LEATHER CASE -DWM 1900 AMERICAN EAGLE LUGER WITH IDEAL STOCK AND GRIPS -DWM 1902 AMERICAN EAGLE FAT BARREL LUGER -DWM 1900 BULGARIAN LUGER -DWM 1920 CARBINE WITH STOCK Here is a link to the first session of the auction, which has photos and detailed descriptions (from an independent expert) of many of his Lugers (see lots 1072-1142, which include most of his pistols) http://jamesdjulia.com/auctions/div_....asp?pageREQ=1 I am sure if you have any questions, I can his answers and post them. Mark

09-10-2011, 10:00 AM	#3
Michael Zeleny Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 525 Thanks: 129 Thanked 139 Times in 76 Posts	Very impressive. I will bid early and often. __________________ Michael Zeleny@post.harvard.edu -- http://larvatus.livejournal.com/ -- 7576 Willow Glen Road, Los Angeles, CA 90046 -- 323.363.1860 All of old. Nothing else ever. Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better. -- Samuel Beckett

09-10-2011, 10:53 AM	#5
Hugo Borchardt User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Tennessee Posts: 372 Thanks: 340 Thanked 143 Times in 48 Posts	I'll attend. Take it easy on me Mr. Zelaney! __________________ My militaria collection is dedicated to the memory of my Grandfather, Marine Gunnery Sergeant Dave Hill, Jr., wounded in action at The Assault of the Second Marine Division on Betio Island, Tarawa Atoll, 20-23 November, 1943. http://www.tarawa1943.com/pages/casualties%20tarawa.htm

09-10-2011, 11:40 AM	#6
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,040 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,257 Times in 1,724 Posts	Mark, Thanks for the heads-up. Your father's Borchardt is a new serial number for the data base...much appreciated. Ron __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

09-10-2011, 12:47 PM	#7
barry User Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Kalifornia Posts: 34 Thanks: 2 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	auction description I've developed a habit of trusting the gun descriptions of some auction houses and a total "NEVER" with other houses. I've never dealt with the James D. Julia auction house. Are their gun descriptions accurate and honest? -Barry

09-09-2011, 10:05 PM	#2
spartacus38 Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: South Lake Tahoe,CA. Posts: 695 Thanks: 0 Thanked 70 Times in 56 Posts	Hi Mark, Thank you for the info;I will be bidding. Bob

09-10-2011, 10:21 AM	#4
Markdk User Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks Michael & Bob - if you have any questions, I will forward to my father. I really don't know much about Lugers, but the independent expert who graded the guns (and he was extremely conservative) in terms of their condition (as written in the description) has seen thousands of Lugers. He said that his Borchardt was the best example he has ever seen (in terms of condition and originality). Mark

09-10-2011, 02:37 PM	#8
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	Judging by the meticulous references to small defects for most of the models, I would at least feel well informed when bidding with Julia.

09-10-2011, 03:24 PM	#9
Markdk User Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	In terms of condition, my father went into this thinking that a large portion of his collection was in mint condition. He was told the independent expert was going to be very conservative for the very reason you raise - they don't want any surprises - so on some of the guns that my father thought were truly mint, the expert found and pointed out the flaws. His descriptions, from what I understand, are accurate and conservative (making his comment about the Borshardt all the more impressive). So, as I mentioned before, while I am no expert, I believe these are highly accurate descriptions - so that someone doesn't buy it and then get disappointed with the pistol when it arrives. I will also tell you that the expert found that a couple of the lugers my father thought were in mint condition were refinished and thus couldnt be considered mint (and this is noted in the description). Also, the expert found that the Russian one of one hundred (lot 1106) that my father bought years ago thinking it was truly one of the 100 is actually a reproduction. My father, who has gained an extensive Luger knowledge over the 50 years that he has colleccted and is a sophisticated Luger buyer, had no idea - he truly believed it was one of the 100. Needless to say, 1106 makes full disclosure. I just spoke with my father to urge him to register here so that he can monitor this post to answer any questions that you may have. I believe he will be signing in later today. Mark

09-10-2011, 04:09 PM	#10
nukem556 User Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Irmo, SC Posts: 625 Thanks: 35 Thanked 168 Times in 107 Posts	would be interesting to find out who sold your father the......ahem......."reproduction" Russian

09-10-2011, 04:41 PM	#12
nukem556 User Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Irmo, SC Posts: 625 Thanks: 35 Thanked 168 Times in 107 Posts	Didn't mean to be unfair, it's just a confusing issue....I know the controversy exists about the reality of these pistols..... I'm just wondering if the appraiser decided, as it sounds in the listing, that Russians ARE a legit variation, and this one was created to mimick one.

09-11-2011, 09:41 AM	#14
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,920 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,135 Times in 1,518 Posts	As a relatively new Luger collector, I would recommend the Julia auction listing photographs for study. If they are conservative estimates of condition, the higher resolution photographs provide a great reference for understanding the finish condition of my own collection and Lugers that I examine in the future. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

09-22-2011, 10:18 AM	#16
command450 User Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: West Michigan Posts: 38 Thanks: 16 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Your father made some awesome choices !!! that is a stunning carbine/case set!! not to mention the other items at the auction for sale

09-27-2011, 10:04 PM	#17
Markdk User Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	thanks - I know he had mixed feelings on auctioning his collection...

09-28-2011, 04:38 AM	#19
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,607 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Albert, Welcome back, we missed you! I'm amused that a mere reference to a Russian Luger is enough to waken the sleeping tiger. Best regards, Norm

09-28-2011, 04:46 AM	#20
Imperial Arms Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Malta, EU Posts: 579 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts	Moi, a sleeping tiger...I'm a sweet pussssy cat It always good to keep other people on their toes! Cheers, Albert