Artillery Luger questions

Cranel · 09-18-2011, 02:44 PM

I recently received a Luger from my father, he's had it for at least forty years that I know of an never touched it. I have quite a few guns and know Broomhandle and other collectables fairly well. Enough of that. This Luger has no numbers or proof marks anywhere. It has a cut out in the back where a strap would go but no signs of ever having the bar to attach it to. The barrel is more of a straw color than the rest of the gun with no marks on it. The finish seems to be about 85 percent maybe more. It has an adjustable rear sight (elevation) but no numbers or proofs at all? The grips have wear that would be consistent with age and they have no stamps either. Any ideas ??? Also it does not have a grip safety and appears to have a "0" under the safety lever

DavidJayUden · 09-18-2011, 03:27 PM

Me thinks we need pictures to be of any help.
dju

Edward Tinker · 09-18-2011, 03:46 PM

Yes, pictures are a must. It sounds different, so.... I am inclined to think it is a commercial 8 inch, but with pictures we would know more.

Ed

Cranel · 09-18-2011, 04:45 PM

pictures added, Thanks

sheepherder · 09-18-2011, 05:32 PM

Just a WAG from the pics, but it appears to be heavily buffed...and the rear toggle piece looks odd...It has a scallop that none of my Lugers have...

DavidJayUden · 09-18-2011, 05:49 PM

It appears to be buffed and hot-blued. That cut out in the back is where a lanyard loop should be. Can't tell you more on the numbers from the photos, but look closely on the lower edge for the last 2 digits of the serial #. Repro. holster.
dju

sheepherder · 09-18-2011, 06:55 PM

My artillery toggle train does not have this scallop in it...Anyone have any idea what it is for???

sheepherder · 09-18-2011, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cranel

It has a cut out in the back where a strap would go but no signs of ever having the bar to attach it to.

The lanyard loop has been ground off flush and reblued. You can make out the embedded stubs in your pic.

Lugerdoc · 09-28-2011, 11:29 AM

The rear toggle "knobs" appear to have been compressed (not parallel to axis of barrel, so the indentation, is probably a relief cut so that the mid toggle link will move when attached to this rear link. TH

alanint · 09-28-2011, 11:38 AM

The relief cut in the rearmost link was certainly made to allow the toggle knobs to be bent in, for some bizzare reason. The middle link's tab, which interfaces with the rear link would have had to be ground down some to work with these bent in knobs.
What I can't figure out would be the purpose of this arrangement?

lugerholsterrepair · 09-28-2011, 11:44 AM

Before or after your pistol was aquired 40 some years ago... Bubba killed it. I would be very hesitant to fire this pistol.

sheepherder · 09-28-2011, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lugerdoc

The rear toggle "knobs" appear to have been compressed (not parallel to axis of barrel, so the indentation, is probably a relief cut so that the mid toggle link will move when attached to this rear link. TH

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanint

The relief cut in the rearmost link was certainly made to allow the toggle knobs to be bent in, for some bizzare reason. The middle link's tab, which interfaces with the rear link would have had to be ground down some to work with these bent in knobs.

I disagree...Looking at my Lugers, no part of the middle link ever comes close to the 'scallop'...It might possible have been incidental metal removal from a grinder widening the gap for the middle toggle link...but the grinder operator (I'm thinking a 4 1/2" hand grinder with a cutoff wheel) would have had to be pretty careless...

I do share the opinion that the toggle knobs have been bent...Very mysterious...It would have had to have been done off the pistol...

...Ten foot pole Luger...

sheepherder · 09-28-2011, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanint

The relief cut in the rearmost link...

Doug, I've been racking my brain for ways to duplicate this 'scallop'...The only way I can think of is with a round file; using it to 'clean up' the middle link clearance relief without detaching the rear link...and getting incidental filing of the rear link in that area...Maybe removing pitting before buffing...

alanint · 09-28-2011, 01:09 PM

I still stand by my theory. The relief cut is clearly purposely done and removes enough metal to allow the knobs to be bent in without cracking the rear toggle. I think it was milled in just for the purpose of bending the knobs in and has nothing to do directly with the middle toggle. The only possible reason for bending the knobs in would be to allow the knobs to gain a tighter grip on the middle link's tab, for some reason. An attempt to tighten up the action?
I really have no logical explanation for this work

09-18-2011, 02:44 PM	#1
Cranel New User Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 2 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Artillery Luger questions I recently received a Luger from my father, he's had it for at least forty years that I know of an never touched it. I have quite a few guns and know Broomhandle and other collectables fairly well. Enough of that. This Luger has no numbers or proof marks anywhere. It has a cut out in the back where a strap would go but no signs of ever having the bar to attach it to. The barrel is more of a straw color than the rest of the gun with no marks on it. The finish seems to be about 85 percent maybe more. It has an adjustable rear sight (elevation) but no numbers or proofs at all? The grips have wear that would be consistent with age and they have no stamps either. Any ideas ??? Also it does not have a grip safety and appears to have a "0" under the safety lever Attached Thumbnails Last edited by Cranel; 09-18-2011 at 04:44 PM. Reason: Added to post

09-18-2011, 03:46 PM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	Yes, pictures are a must. It sounds different, so.... I am inclined to think it is a commercial 8 inch, but with pictures we would know more. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-18-2011, 05:32 PM	#5
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,197 Thanks: 1,416 Thanked 4,462 Times in 2,336 Posts	Just a WAG from the pics, but it appears to be heavily buffed...and the rear toggle piece looks odd...It has a scallop that none of my Lugers have... __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

09-18-2011, 06:55 PM	#7
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,197 Thanks: 1,416 Thanked 4,462 Times in 2,336 Posts	My artillery toggle train does not have this scallop in it...Anyone have any idea what it is for??? Attached Images __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

09-28-2011, 11:29 AM	#9
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	The rear toggle "knobs" appear to have been compressed (not parallel to axis of barrel, so the indentation, is probably a relief cut so that the mid toggle link will move when attached to this rear link. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

09-18-2011, 03:27 PM	#2
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Me thinks we need pictures to be of any help. dju

09-18-2011, 04:45 PM	#4
Cranel New User Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 2 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	pictures added, Thanks

09-18-2011, 05:49 PM	#6
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	It appears to be buffed and hot-blued. That cut out in the back is where a lanyard loop should be. Can't tell you more on the numbers from the photos, but look closely on the lower edge for the last 2 digits of the serial #. Repro. holster. dju

09-28-2011, 11:38 AM	#10
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	The relief cut in the rearmost link was certainly made to allow the toggle knobs to be bent in, for some bizzare reason. The middle link's tab, which interfaces with the rear link would have had to be ground down some to work with these bent in knobs. What I can't figure out would be the purpose of this arrangement?

09-28-2011, 11:44 AM	#11
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,133 Times in 1,439 Posts	Before or after your pistol was aquired 40 some years ago... Bubba killed it. I would be very hesitant to fire this pistol. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

09-28-2011, 01:09 PM	#14
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	I still stand by my theory. The relief cut is clearly purposely done and removes enough metal to allow the knobs to be bent in without cracking the rear toggle. I think it was milled in just for the purpose of bending the knobs in and has nothing to do directly with the middle toggle. The only possible reason for bending the knobs in would be to allow the knobs to gain a tighter grip on the middle link's tab, for some reason. An attempt to tighten up the action? I really have no logical explanation for this work