Need advice on a Simson

wayne8661 · 09-04-2011, 05:49 PM

I received a phone call from a buddy of mine today who belongs to the same gun collector group as I Telling me of a gentlman who walked in with a luger. The fellow claims it to be an SS Piece but I disagree,

It is a chamber dated Simson with a date of 1921.

Strawed small parts

Sear Safety

All exterior serial numbers match ( Dont know about the firing pin etc...)

Dark Walnut grips in excellent condition.

Matched aluminum mag

Multiple grip strap markings all but 1 are X'd except S.D.II (Schutzpolizei Dusseldorf?)

Condidtion 90% according to my buddy and I believe that He is anal about gun conditions.

The gentlman is asking $1800 for the pistol it has no holster seems high to me for a police luger.

I apologize for not having photos but if I go to see the pistol I will take some to post.

Is it worth investigating further?

Norme · 09-04-2011, 06:20 PM

Is it worth investigating further? Yes! Simson's are rare and expensive. Regards, Norm

Edward Tinker · 09-04-2011, 07:37 PM

With a date of 1921, i would bet it is a mismatch or it is a official rework with a Simson toggle.

I have a 1908 first issue that has many Simson components, to include a Simson toggle.

pictures, especially of the right side of the acceptance and proofs, the bottom of the stock lug (like looking into the magazine well), the full left and full right.

I can look at it and tell you if a true simson or a rework.

need full serial number and if any suffix, you may email me more specific pictures if you desire, but please also post some info here.

ed_tinker@hotmail.com

Sounds like a police that was reworked at some point as the unit marking is Police for sure.

His price if not a Simson is about $400 too high for a 90%, even with a matching mag, but police are much more common w/ matching mags than army.

Ed

wayne8661 · 09-04-2011, 07:46 PM

Ed, I appreciate it I will contact the guy and look at it. I thought the date was odd but I also havent had the pistol in my hands yet. I will try to look at it tomorrow and take pics.

George Anderson · 09-04-2011, 09:22 PM

When you hear the phrase "SS" associated with a Luger, run away.

wayne8661 · 09-04-2011, 09:35 PM

Well, As long as I can convince the guy that the SD on the grip strap is a police designation and not a gestapo weapon I might have a shot.

Edward Tinker · 09-05-2011, 04:13 AM

simply find the many charts or facts that state that the S.D. stands for Schuzepolizei Dusseldorf and prove it with facts.

Ed

Don M · 09-05-2011, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

simply find the many charts or facts that state that the S.D. stands for Schuzepolizei Dusseldorf and prove it with facts.

Show him Chapter 7 of History Writ in Steel.

mrerick · 09-05-2011, 10:39 AM

In addition to Don's excellent and extensive study, there is an overview online at:

http://www.radix.net/~bbrown/police_unit_marks.html

Marc

Edward Tinker · 09-05-2011, 11:22 AM

Marc, a lot of that information is wrong....

And Don, if he had your book, I would imagine he would not have written here. Well, that is not true, i get emails from folks asking me about Simson's and they have our book.

Ed

Don M · 09-05-2011, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

Don, if he had your book, I would imagine he would not have written here. Well, that is not true, i get emails from folks asking me about Simson's and they have our book.

Ed, the last post was issued by my marketing department.

Edward Tinker · 09-05-2011, 01:02 PM

heh, heh, yes and it is well deserved my friend

wayne8661 · 09-05-2011, 07:10 PM

Okay I spoke with the gentleman with the pistol. It is not a Simpson it is a DWM possibly a first issue as the only date on the chamber is 1921. There are at least 2 unit marks on the grip strap that are X'd out. (along with the S.D.II)

The gentleman is still holding on to the idea the the SD means Sicherheitsdienst, So I wished him good luck in finding a buyer for the pistol.

P.S Don i also purchased your book tonight.

Don M · 09-05-2011, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wayne8661

P.S Don i also purchased your book tonight.

Walter, I thank you very much and hope you enjoy the book.

09-04-2011, 05:49 PM	#1
wayne8661 User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Kennett Square Pennsylvania Posts: 591 Thanks: 15 Thanked 334 Times in 104 Posts	Need advice on a Simson I received a phone call from a buddy of mine today who belongs to the same gun collector group as I Telling me of a gentlman who walked in with a luger. The fellow claims it to be an SS Piece but I disagree, It is a chamber dated Simson with a date of 1921. Strawed small parts Sear Safety All exterior serial numbers match ( Dont know about the firing pin etc...) Dark Walnut grips in excellent condition. Matched aluminum mag Multiple grip strap markings all but 1 are X'd except S.D.II (Schutzpolizei Dusseldorf?) Condidtion 90% according to my buddy and I believe that He is anal about gun conditions. The gentlman is asking $1800 for the pistol it has no holster seems high to me for a police luger. I apologize for not having photos but if I go to see the pistol I will take some to post. Is it worth investigating further?

09-04-2011, 07:37 PM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,926 Thanks: 2,014 Thanked 4,523 Times in 2,089 Posts	With a date of 1921, i would bet it is a mismatch or it is a official rework with a Simson toggle. I have a 1908 first issue that has many Simson components, to include a Simson toggle. pictures, especially of the right side of the acceptance and proofs, the bottom of the stock lug (like looking into the magazine well), the full left and full right. I can look at it and tell you if a true simson or a rework. need full serial number and if any suffix, you may email me more specific pictures if you desire, but please also post some info here. ed_tinker@hotmail.com Sounds like a police that was reworked at some point as the unit marking is Police for sure. His price if not a Simson is about $400 too high for a 90%, even with a matching mag, but police are much more common w/ matching mags than army. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-05-2011, 04:13 AM	#7
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,926 Thanks: 2,014 Thanked 4,523 Times in 2,089 Posts	simply find the many charts or facts that state that the S.D. stands for Schuzepolizei Dusseldorf and prove it with facts. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-05-2011, 10:39 AM	#9
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,907 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,108 Times in 1,509 Posts	In addition to Don's excellent and extensive study, there is an overview online at: http://www.radix.net/~bbrown/police_unit_marks.html Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

09-05-2011, 11:22 AM	#10
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,926 Thanks: 2,014 Thanked 4,523 Times in 2,089 Posts	Marc, a lot of that information is wrong.... And Don, if he had your book, I would imagine he would not have written here. Well, that is not true, i get emails from folks asking me about Simson's and they have our book. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-04-2011, 06:20 PM	#2
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 225 Thanked 2,603 Times in 933 Posts	Is it worth investigating further? Yes! Simson's are rare and expensive. Regards, Norm

09-04-2011, 07:46 PM	#4
wayne8661 User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Kennett Square Pennsylvania Posts: 591 Thanks: 15 Thanked 334 Times in 104 Posts	Ed, I appreciate it I will contact the guy and look at it. I thought the date was odd but I also havent had the pistol in my hands yet. I will try to look at it tomorrow and take pics.

09-04-2011, 09:22 PM	#5
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,528 Times in 787 Posts	When you hear the phrase "SS" associated with a Luger, run away.

09-04-2011, 09:35 PM	#6
wayne8661 User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Kennett Square Pennsylvania Posts: 591 Thanks: 15 Thanked 334 Times in 104 Posts	Well, As long as I can convince the guy that the SD on the grip strap is a police designation and not a gestapo weapon I might have a shot.

09-05-2011, 01:02 PM	#12
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,926 Thanks: 2,014 Thanked 4,523 Times in 2,089 Posts	heh, heh, yes and it is well deserved my friend

09-05-2011, 07:10 PM	#13
wayne8661 User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Kennett Square Pennsylvania Posts: 591 Thanks: 15 Thanked 334 Times in 104 Posts	Okay I spoke with the gentleman with the pistol. It is not a Simpson it is a DWM possibly a first issue as the only date on the chamber is 1921. There are at least 2 unit marks on the grip strap that are X'd out. (along with the S.D.II) The gentleman is still holding on to the idea the the SD means Sicherheitsdienst, So I wished him good luck in finding a buyer for the pistol. P.S Don i also purchased your book tonight.