1916 dwm

Rootshot · 08-21-2011, 01:42 AM

Hi Everyone,

I saw a 1916 DWM at a local gun store today and fell in love playing with it. If there is such a thing as Lugeritis, I've caught it

.

I haven't bought it yet, because I would like your expert opinion whether the asking price of $900 is reasonable.

I've attached a few pictures below.

- All serial number (externally visible) appear to match.
- I did not catch the number (if any) on the magazine.
- It is chambered in 9mm.
- The grip is checkered walnut without border or insignia.
- The marking under the safety lever is "Gesichert".
- I'm unsure on barrel length, but it appears to be around 4".
- The rear sight is a fixed V notch.
- The bore appears "dirty" inside - probably indicating some corrosion.
- There does not appear to be any internal corrosion.

Thank you for your help.

--Rootshot

Click image for larger version

Name: DSC00679.JPG
Views: 127
Size: 172.8 KB
ID: 20863

Click image for larger version

Name: DSC00680.JPG
Views: 139
Size: 156.0 KB
ID: 20864

Click image for larger version

Name: DSC00681.JPG
Views: 73
Size: 177.0 KB
ID: 20865

Click image for larger version

Name: DSC00682.JPG
Views: 72
Size: 154.2 KB
ID: 20866

Click image for larger version

Name: DSC00683.JPG
Views: 95
Size: 121.0 KB
ID: 20867

Click image for larger version

Name: DSC00684.JPG
Views: 80
Size: 175.9 KB
ID: 20868

Edward Tinker · 08-21-2011, 02:40 AM

Your background makes it hard to judge.

A 1916 DWM is not rare, that said the price is reasonable, However, ensure that the interior parts, firing pin, hold-open, grips, etc should have the last two of the serial number to be truly matching.

The magazine appears to be a modern replacement.

Welcome to the forum!

Ed

MFC · 08-21-2011, 03:18 AM

The ejector is broken. It isn't a numbered part and is easily replaced.

sheepherder · 08-21-2011, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFC

The ejector is broken. It isn't a numbered part and is easily replaced.

Which makes this a prime candidate for a price reduction...Point the broken ejector out to him, mention it is a safety hazard, and offer $800...or even less...

mrerick · 08-21-2011, 11:53 AM

I can't tell due to soft details in your photos, but the left side of the barrel near the front sight may have either an import marking or corrosion.

In either case, the barrel appears to have a different finish shine and consistency than the rest of the Luger. If corrosion pits are blued, it's been refinished. Check to see that the front of the barrel is still "in the white" (never blued) and that the interior rails are also in the white. If they are blued it's been refinished.

If it's import marked, it's likely a recent Russian Capture import. If the barrel is refinished it is less attractive as a collectible Luger. In either case, the value drops to that of a "shooter" Luger. Perhaps 25% less than a collectible.

Marc

Rootshot · 08-21-2011, 03:04 PM

Thank you all for the great advice.

I do remember that the hold-open wasn't working. The gun store owner said it was that magazine and an easy fix. Is that the case?

Thank you for pointing out the broken ejector. I didn't notice this.

There were no import marks that I could notice and I'll have to re-check the blueing to see if it was refinished.

Even with these deficiencies, it sounds like its priced within reason.

Thanks,

--Rootshot

ithacaartist · 08-21-2011, 03:34 PM

Hi Rootshot,
The Luger hold-opens functions when the follower button of an empty magazine comes into contact with it. It will not hold the action open if the magazine still has a round in it, or with no magazine. An offending magazine can be adjusted so this can happen when it's supposed to, or the situation very often improves with the use of a different magazine entirely.
Congrats on your find!
David Parker

FNorm · 08-21-2011, 04:14 PM

I have one, that the underside of the toggle is so worn that the HO will not catch on it.
Makes ya wonder?

FN

sheepherder · 08-21-2011, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrerick

Check to see that the front of the barrel is still "in the white" (never blued) and that the interior rails are also in the white.

I've wondered about this...Is the muzzle lacking blue because there was some kind of dowel that was used so that no oily hands touched these parts???

Norme · 08-21-2011, 05:59 PM

Hi Rich, I believe rubber plugs were inserted in the muzzle and chamber to keep the bluing solution out of the bore. Regards, Norm

sheepherder · 08-21-2011, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norme

Hi Rich, I believe rubber plugs were inserted in the muzzle and chamber to keep the bluing solution out of the bore. Regards, Norm

Norm - Then how was the bluing applied??? If it was swabbed on, it had to be held or supported...If it was dipped, it still had to be held or supported...

BTW: I've used rubber plugs for Parkerizing, and they have a habit of blowing out of a hot barrel (solution is just under 200ºF)...Wood dowels tapered & tapped in work much better...

And I support the parts with thin wire in inconspicuous places...

Norme · 08-21-2011, 07:09 PM

I don't know Rich, but I've seen muzzle crowns that were blued around the edge, suggesting that the stopper didn't fit too tightly. Regards, Norm

CAP Black · 08-22-2011, 06:12 PM

As to your "lugeritis" just take two asperin and call a close friend in the morning. Perhaps he can tell you to get over it. One thing I've discovered is that purchasing "just one more" isn't the cure. I've been acquiring them for three years and haven't for a cure contained in any of them.
Best of luck.
Jack

Rootshot · 08-22-2011, 10:45 PM

As a follow-up question....since I will have to replace the ejector, what other replacement parts should I order and install to ensure reliable operation? What springs / parts wear out? I would rather keep the original parts as a backup and use new parts where they enhance reliability.

Thank you,

--Rootshot

MFC · 08-23-2011, 03:30 AM

Patrick,
Good idea about the parts change if you plan on shooting it! Many collectors wouldn't shoot an all matching Luger. If a numbered part breaks, it probably becomes a shooter.
The best and easiest thing to do is to buy a complete toggle train for shooting. Short of that, I would put in a spare extractor and firing pin which are both numbered to the gun. Get a later produced Mauser or repro firing pin which is fluted to allow gases to escape. Don't use +P or any hot ammo. The best factory ammo is Winchester 115 gr. white box. available at Wal- Mart.
You should contact 'Lugerdoc' Tom Heller on this forum for the parts you need.

alanint · 08-23-2011, 09:32 AM

You don't show any photos looking down into the frame.
That "magazine which won't activate the hold-open" may actually be a damaged hold open, which will add cost to the pistol to fix or replace. Are you sure the hold open is actually present? Just curious since there are no images to verify.

Also useful would be a photo of the underside of the barrel where it meets the upper frame. It was mentioned that the barrel looked to be a different finish than the balance of the gun, (which it does in the photos) This is one of the areas where it is easiest to tell a reblue from a photo, as the halos on the stampings are most obvious here.

08-21-2011, 01:42 AM	#1
Rootshot User Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: California Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	1916 dwm Hi Everyone, I saw a 1916 DWM at a local gun store today and fell in love playing with it. If there is such a thing as Lugeritis, I've caught it . I haven't bought it yet, because I would like your expert opinion whether the asking price of $900 is reasonable. I've attached a few pictures below. - All serial number (externally visible) appear to match. - I did not catch the number (if any) on the magazine. - It is chambered in 9mm. - The grip is checkered walnut without border or insignia. - The marking under the safety lever is "Gesichert". - I'm unsure on barrel length, but it appears to be around 4". - The rear sight is a fixed V notch. - The bore appears "dirty" inside - probably indicating some corrosion. - There does not appear to be any internal corrosion. Thank you for your help. --Rootshot

08-21-2011, 02:40 AM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,929 Thanks: 2,029 Thanked 4,527 Times in 2,090 Posts	Your background makes it hard to judge. A 1916 DWM is not rare, that said the price is reasonable, However, ensure that the interior parts, firing pin, hold-open, grips, etc should have the last two of the serial number to be truly matching. The magazine appears to be a modern replacement. Welcome to the forum! Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

08-21-2011, 03:18 AM	#3
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	The ejector is broken. It isn't a numbered part and is easily replaced. __________________ Mike C.

08-21-2011, 11:53 AM	#5
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,909 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,110 Times in 1,510 Posts	I can't tell due to soft details in your photos, but the left side of the barrel near the front sight may have either an import marking or corrosion. In either case, the barrel appears to have a different finish shine and consistency than the rest of the Luger. If corrosion pits are blued, it's been refinished. Check to see that the front of the barrel is still "in the white" (never blued) and that the interior rails are also in the white. If they are blued it's been refinished. If it's import marked, it's likely a recent Russian Capture import. If the barrel is refinished it is less attractive as a collectible Luger. In either case, the value drops to that of a "shooter" Luger. Perhaps 25% less than a collectible. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

08-23-2011, 03:30 AM	#15
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	Patrick, Good idea about the parts change if you plan on shooting it! Many collectors wouldn't shoot an all matching Luger. If a numbered part breaks, it probably becomes a shooter. The best and easiest thing to do is to buy a complete toggle train for shooting. Short of that, I would put in a spare extractor and firing pin which are both numbered to the gun. Get a later produced Mauser or repro firing pin which is fluted to allow gases to escape. Don't use +P or any hot ammo. The best factory ammo is Winchester 115 gr. white box. available at Wal- Mart. You should contact 'Lugerdoc' Tom Heller on this forum for the parts you need. __________________ Mike C.

08-21-2011, 03:04 PM	#6
Rootshot User Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: California Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Thank you all for the great advice. I do remember that the hold-open wasn't working. The gun store owner said it was that magazine and an easy fix. Is that the case? Thank you for pointing out the broken ejector. I didn't notice this. There were no import marks that I could notice and I'll have to re-check the blueing to see if it was refinished. Even with these deficiencies, it sounds like its priced within reason. Thanks, --Rootshot

08-21-2011, 03:34 PM	#7
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,339 Thanks: 7,263 Thanked 2,564 Times in 1,362 Posts	Hi Rootshot, The Luger hold-opens functions when the follower button of an empty magazine comes into contact with it. It will not hold the action open if the magazine still has a round in it, or with no magazine. An offending magazine can be adjusted so this can happen when it's supposed to, or the situation very often improves with the use of a different magazine entirely. Congrats on your find! David Parker

08-21-2011, 04:14 PM	#8
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	I have one, that the underside of the toggle is so worn that the HO will not catch on it. Makes ya wonder? FN

08-21-2011, 05:59 PM	#10
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,603 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Rich, I believe rubber plugs were inserted in the muzzle and chamber to keep the bluing solution out of the bore. Regards, Norm

08-21-2011, 07:09 PM	#12
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,603 Times in 933 Posts	I don't know Rich, but I've seen muzzle crowns that were blued around the edge, suggesting that the stopper didn't fit too tightly. Regards, Norm

08-22-2011, 06:12 PM	#13
CAP Black User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Fairmont, WV Right here in Mountaineer country and God's country Posts: 767 Thanks: 100 Thanked 168 Times in 96 Posts	As to your "lugeritis" just take two asperin and call a close friend in the morning. Perhaps he can tell you to get over it. One thing I've discovered is that purchasing "just one more" isn't the cure. I've been acquiring them for three years and haven't for a cure contained in any of them. Best of luck. Jack

08-22-2011, 10:45 PM	#14
Rootshot User Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: California Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	As a follow-up question....since I will have to replace the ejector, what other replacement parts should I order and install to ensure reliable operation? What springs / parts wear out? I would rather keep the original parts as a backup and use new parts where they enhance reliability. Thank you, --Rootshot

08-23-2011, 09:32 AM	#16
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	You don't show any photos looking down into the frame. That "magazine which won't activate the hold-open" may actually be a damaged hold open, which will add cost to the pistol to fix or replace. Are you sure the hold open is actually present? Just curious since there are no images to verify. Also useful would be a photo of the underside of the barrel where it meets the upper frame. It was mentioned that the barrel looked to be a different finish than the balance of the gun, (which it does in the photos) This is one of the areas where it is easiest to tell a reblue from a photo, as the halos on the stampings are most obvious here.