What is a 'good' trigger pull?

[G.T.]

Hi to all, there's a lot more to a good repeatable trigger pull then just weight, also important are take up, slack, creep, break(as in crisp & uniform), over travel along with sear break weight... it's not just the pounds of pull on a luger trigger, it's all the rest as well... Of course, one is certainly limited by very expensive replacement parts, and hard to modify parts as well... Plus on top of all that, the design doesn't really lend itself to modification very well, as there is plenty of "In & out" as well as "back & forth" to contend with... As a result, I think in general, we've ended up with a lot more machine pistols then improved triggers..at least for the first few go arounds!... Best to all, til...lat'r....GT

[Michael Zeleny]

Originally Posted by G.T.

Hi to all, there's a lot more to a good repeatable trigger pull then just weight, also important are take up, slack, creep, break(as in crisp & uniform), over travel along with sear break weight... it's not just the pounds of pull on a luger trigger, it's all the rest as well...

All the rest is measured by the TriggerScan system. I suggest looking at the previously referenced study of Korth firearms by Veit Morgenroth for examples of its output.

Of course, one is certainly limited by very expensive replacement parts, and hard to modify parts as well... Plus on top of all that, the design doesn't really lend itself to modification very well, as there is plenty of "In & out" as well as "back & forth" to contend with...

I don't buy these cavils in view of W+F having managed to reduce "In & out" and "back & forth" well enough to win the 1949 ISSF World Championship. I further submit that a properly tuned two-stage Luger trigger will have a much crisper sear engagement than a similarly prepared single-stage M1911.

[G.T.]

Well Michael, I love lugers as much or more then the next guy... But I learned very early on that they were never designed, or intended to have match grade sights, and target triggers... And yes, a few have been successfully converted, and a few have even won in tough competition..... I'm even trying to build one myself, like I said, I love'em!!.. But, that puts Lugers solidly in about the .0009 percentile (If even that??) of winning guns in the tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of pistol matches shot over the last seventy five years... .....Also, I have experienced that when a competitor is backed by a factory... his chances are markedly improved... I think the reason you see a lot of 1911 types shooting in competition, is because they work well for it, and people win with them... Simple as that, If the Luger held the magic at the contest, they'd all be shooting them...
And sometimes, right guy, right gun, it's just your day.. I've seen excellent pistol shots, and it really didn't matter what they shot, as long as there were some sights and the trigger wasn't welded solid... (I think they could still beat me with those handicaps...)... So, I guess I respectfully disagree with the notion that the Luger in any form, will compete with a match grade 1911, probably on any level, with the exception of perhaps the WW battlefields, I don't think the German Army, in the whole of (both) war(s), had as many stoppages and failures to feed as we peacetime shooters do! ... .. Best to all, til...lat'r...GT

[Michael Zeleny]

Originally Posted by G.T.

Well Michael, I love lugers as much or more then the next guy... But I learned very early on that they were never designed, or intended to have match grade sights, and target triggers... And yes, a few have been successfully converted, and a few have even won in tough competition..... I'm even trying to build one myself, like I said, I love'em!!.. But, that puts Lugers solidly in about the .0009 percentile (If even that??) of winning guns in the tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of pistol matches shot over the last seventy five years... .....Also, I have experienced that when a competitor is backed by a factory... his chances are markedly improved... I think the reason you see a lot of 1911 types shooting in competition, is because they work well for it, and people win with them... Simple as that, If the Luger held the magic at the contest, they'd all be shooting them...

Competition favors whatever is the most available among the admissible devices. Heinrich Keller prevailed over Huelet Benner for the 1949 ISSF world title with his 7.65 Luger pitted against the American's S&W revolver, notwithstanding the latter's putative superiority in the sight picture and the trigger pull. W+F Lugers are still plentiful and highly competitive in Swiss Schützenfesten. All it takes to make them so is a U-notch rear sight modification and trigger tuning with the armorer's tool shown above.

[G.T.]

Hi Michael, I hope someday to be able to make a few Luger parts, and the first place I would start is fire control parts... Maybe someday, the Luger will have a resurgence, relatively speaking.. And then, newly made parts will make a difference, so back to the original issue, at least with me.. matching numberd gun, (too nice to mess with), and expensive replacement parts, especially fire control parts, certainly keep the Luger down with all but a few of us die hards... As with my original post, mistakes, deemed too expensive to fix, passed on to others, have rendered far more Lugers worth less, rather then more accurate... and, I hope to someday be able to straighten a few of them out! Best to you Michael, til...lat'r....GT
BTW, what would one consider the best rear sight for the Luger, what would be the criteria needed to be a good target sight.. ?? Just wondering on opinions...

[hgreer2]

I have an artilley with fine tuned front and rear sights, a little over engineered IMHO. I just wondered if it would make a good target gun ?

Harry

[Michael Zeleny]

The toggle action of the Luger is guaranteed to shake loose any commercially available target sight assembly attached to it within 10,000 rounds or thereabouts. This fact hasn't stopped German and Swiss gunsmiths from mounting the likes of LPA sights on the rear toggle.

The Artillery Luger tends to be more tolerant of various loads owing to greater inertia of its reciprocating cannon assembly. Also, attaching the board stock tends to stabilize the frame in the recoil cycle to a similar effect. However, its sight radius is the shortest among the standard military issues, and the standard v-notch sight picture tends to inspire objections among shooters accustomed to the square notches of present day handgun sights.

[Olle]

Originally Posted by G.T.

Hi to all, there's a lot more to a good repeatable trigger pull then just weight, also important are take up, slack, creep, break(as in crisp & uniform), over travel along with sear break weight... it's not just the pounds of pull on a luger trigger, it's all the rest as well... Of course, one is certainly limited by very expensive replacement parts, and hard to modify parts as well... Plus on top of all that, the design doesn't really lend itself to modification very well, as there is plenty of "In & out" as well as "back & forth" to contend with... As a result, I think in general, we've ended up with a lot more machine pistols then improved triggers..at least for the first few go arounds!... Best to all, til...lat'r....GT

I have done a few trigger jobs myself, and I agree. There's good trigger pull and there's safe trigger pull, but what you want is a good, safe trigger pull. I usually work with more modern guns with way simpler trigger mechanisms, but have still managed to create some full-auto pistols and rifles by being careless with the honing stone. It's no fun having to buy new parts and start over just because you didn't do your homework.

You would think that the sear is most important, but that's not always the case and it's usually the last thing I look at. A slick trigger pull feels much lighter than what the gauge may tell you, and you can get a very nice (and safe) pull by just polishing all the bearing surfaces, pins etc. In some pistols I have found that the greatest improvement was after polishing the sides of the hammer and the sear. In short: Polishing anything that can rub or bind is a safe way to improve the trigger. Changing spring weights can also make a great difference. Lugers and Borchards are of course totally different animals, but the same principles should apply.

[G.T.]

Hi ollie, I agree, polish and springs could make the most dramatic improvement, with out sacrificing safety... Any time you start grinding.. well, let's just say, A lot of other things have to be right first... ... Best to all, til...lat'r...GT