G date Banner

myky · 05-29-2011, 05:26 PM

All........ just came into posession of this strange Banner toggled G date. The reciever has E/211 proofs, the barrel has E/154, the stop lug has E/154. The frame serial # is 1948x, and all the parts match, including the grips. The style and font of the numbers are the same, even to the toggle pin. The overall condition is not the best but it is the same all over, looking to be all together since it was made. The mag is a silver bodied, aluminum bottom, with only a S/42 proof and no numbers. Page 136 of Don Hallocks new book states "Confusing Exceptions" that may give some insight to this piece. There probably will be several opinions, but that is why I'm posting these scans. Thanking all of you in advance...

God bless........ Myky

myky · 05-29-2011, 05:53 PM

Whoops..... wrong mag scan.......Here's the right one..... sorry.

Myky

George Anderson · 05-29-2011, 06:14 PM

Hope you got it real cheap.

myky · 05-29-2011, 07:04 PM

Yep....... $ 700.00......

sheepherder · 05-29-2011, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by myky

Yep....... $ 700.00......

...Aren't you going to ask George why he hoped you got it real cheap???

myky · 05-29-2011, 09:32 PM

Nah....... he's probably trying to shoot it down because it isn't his........ : ) but........we ALL know that feeling..........

Later............ myky@ctesc.net

EricW · 05-30-2011, 12:40 AM

Numbers may match, but the years do not. Check Don's book. You'll probably find that the x suffix on frame is for a 1937 gun... note the blued small parts. A G Date has strawed small parts, and the E/211 mark is found in the d block. It is a parts gun.

myky · 05-30-2011, 12:12 PM

Eric....... thanks for the input guy. Yes, I too believe it's a parts gun, going by Don's book. Any piece that had failed muster by the military inspectors was sent back to Mauser and they incorporated the necessary parts, and then sent it to the commercial market. By all parts matching with the same style and font, the un numbered surplus mag, and the finish being the same on all parts, it's apparent that's where this piece came from. I've been collecting Lugers for 52 years and this is a strange one for sure, not near in value as an un altered one, but still a conversation piece, and an insight as to Mauser's proceedures on rejected Lugers from the military. On pg. 298 Don lists # 1922x as being from 1940 and E/N proofed, a commercial, drilled only, no sear safety. Pg 296 and 297 also gives a short background. Just couldn't pass it up........ : )

God bless......... Mike

GerColctor · 05-30-2011, 01:52 PM

myky

Very interesting Luger. I like your rational, that is is a "parts gun", but it must have been assembled at the factory.

Joe

myky · 05-30-2011, 02:28 PM

Thanks Joe ! I like your " tiger " quote....... : )

God bless.......... Myky

MFC · 06-01-2011, 01:51 AM

The firing proofs were the last proofs to be applied. This indicated the gun was "good to go". If any part of the toggle train failed the test, I don't think any of the parts would have received 'military' firing proofs. I may be totally wrong about this. I hope that someone that knows more about this will chime in.

myky · 06-02-2011, 10:04 PM

Hey Mike, thanks for your input ! Hallock, in his new book, says that the military inspectors could reject it even for poor bluing, even if it had passed all of Mausers proof testing. I kinda think this is what happened since all they did was put a commercial toggle assy. in it, removimg the military one, and running it through thier commercial outlet. See Hallock, pg. 136 and 137.

Later........ myky........ www.relicsofthereichs.com

MFC · 06-02-2011, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by myky

military inspectors could reject it even for poor bluing

I guess we're not the only ones that like "pretty" Lugers.

EricW · 06-03-2011, 06:41 AM

Ah, excuse my previous post myky. I hadn't read Pg 136 and misunderstood your initial post.

Interesting, would they have gone to the trouble of numbering the banner toggle? Can't tell from the photo, is there a proof mark on the left side of the toggle? (not meant as arguments against the theory... just a curious relative newbie : )

myky · 06-06-2011, 04:40 PM

Hi Eric....... sorry to be so late in getting back to you, but have been at a gun show over the weekend. Yes, the toggle is numbered and proofed with the eagle, faint, but it's there. All Mauser had to do is reach in thier parts bin for a new and un numbered toggle, and number it to match. All parts are matched numbers in the same style and font.

myky........

05-29-2011, 05:26 PM	#1
myky User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Texas Hill Country Posts: 178 Thanks: 1 Thanked 22 Times in 9 Posts	G date Banner All........ just came into posession of this strange Banner toggled G date. The reciever has E/211 proofs, the barrel has E/154, the stop lug has E/154. The frame serial # is 1948x, and all the parts match, including the grips. The style and font of the numbers are the same, even to the toggle pin. The overall condition is not the best but it is the same all over, looking to be all together since it was made. The mag is a silver bodied, aluminum bottom, with only a S/42 proof and no numbers. Page 136 of Don Hallocks new book states "Confusing Exceptions" that may give some insight to this piece. There probably will be several opinions, but that is why I'm posting these scans. Thanking all of you in advance... God bless........ Myky Attached Thumbnails Attached Images __________________ myky

05-29-2011, 05:53 PM	#2
myky User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Texas Hill Country Posts: 178 Thanks: 1 Thanked 22 Times in 9 Posts	G date Banner Whoops..... wrong mag scan.......Here's the right one..... sorry. Myky Attached Thumbnails __________________ myky

05-29-2011, 07:04 PM	#4
myky User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Texas Hill Country Posts: 178 Thanks: 1 Thanked 22 Times in 9 Posts	Yep....... $ 700.00...... __________________ myky

05-29-2011, 09:32 PM	#6
myky User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Texas Hill Country Posts: 178 Thanks: 1 Thanked 22 Times in 9 Posts	Nah....... he's probably trying to shoot it down because it isn't his........ : ) but........we ALL know that feeling.......... Later............ myky@ctesc.net __________________ myky

05-30-2011, 12:40 AM	#7
EricW User Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: CA, USA Posts: 62 Thanks: 4 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Numbers may match, but the years do not. Check Don's book. You'll probably find that the x suffix on frame is for a 1937 gun... note the blued small parts. A G Date has strawed small parts, and the E/211 mark is found in the d block. It is a parts gun. __________________ I'm looking for a D suffix DE154 G Date mag. The closer to #457d the better PM me if you have one you are willing to sell, trade, or if you have a lead

05-29-2011, 06:14 PM	#3
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,531 Times in 788 Posts	Hope you got it real cheap.

05-30-2011, 12:12 PM	#8
myky User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Texas Hill Country Posts: 178 Thanks: 1 Thanked 22 Times in 9 Posts	Eric....... thanks for the input guy. Yes, I too believe it's a parts gun, going by Don's book. Any piece that had failed muster by the military inspectors was sent back to Mauser and they incorporated the necessary parts, and then sent it to the commercial market. By all parts matching with the same style and font, the un numbered surplus mag, and the finish being the same on all parts, it's apparent that's where this piece came from. I've been collecting Lugers for 52 years and this is a strange one for sure, not near in value as an un altered one, but still a conversation piece, and an insight as to Mauser's proceedures on rejected Lugers from the military. On pg. 298 Don lists # 1922x as being from 1940 and E/N proofed, a commercial, drilled only, no sear safety. Pg 296 and 297 also gives a short background. Just couldn't pass it up........ : ) God bless......... Mike __________________ myky

05-30-2011, 01:52 PM	#9
GerColctor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: CT & FL Posts: 315 Thanks: 2 Thanked 48 Times in 31 Posts	myky Very interesting Luger. I like your rational, that is is a "parts gun", but it must have been assembled at the factory. Joe __________________ It is better to have lived a day as a tiger, then a thousand years as a lamb.

05-30-2011, 02:28 PM	#10
myky User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Texas Hill Country Posts: 178 Thanks: 1 Thanked 22 Times in 9 Posts	Thanks Joe ! I like your " tiger " quote....... : ) God bless.......... Myky __________________ myky

06-01-2011, 01:51 AM	#11
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	The firing proofs were the last proofs to be applied. This indicated the gun was "good to go". If any part of the toggle train failed the test, I don't think any of the parts would have received 'military' firing proofs. I may be totally wrong about this. I hope that someone that knows more about this will chime in. __________________ Mike C.

06-02-2011, 10:04 PM	#12
myky User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Texas Hill Country Posts: 178 Thanks: 1 Thanked 22 Times in 9 Posts	Hey Mike, thanks for your input ! Hallock, in his new book, says that the military inspectors could reject it even for poor bluing, even if it had passed all of Mausers proof testing. I kinda think this is what happened since all they did was put a commercial toggle assy. in it, removimg the military one, and running it through thier commercial outlet. See Hallock, pg. 136 and 137. Later........ myky........ www.relicsofthereichs.com __________________ myky

06-03-2011, 06:41 AM	#14
EricW User Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: CA, USA Posts: 62 Thanks: 4 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Ah, excuse my previous post myky. I hadn't read Pg 136 and misunderstood your initial post. Interesting, would they have gone to the trouble of numbering the banner toggle? Can't tell from the photo, is there a proof mark on the left side of the toggle? (not meant as arguments against the theory... just a curious relative newbie : )

06-06-2011, 04:40 PM	#15
myky User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Texas Hill Country Posts: 178 Thanks: 1 Thanked 22 Times in 9 Posts	Hi Eric....... sorry to be so late in getting back to you, but have been at a gun show over the weekend. Yes, the toggle is numbered and proofed with the eagle, faint, but it's there. All Mauser had to do is reach in thier parts bin for a new and un numbered toggle, and number it to match. All parts are matched numbers in the same style and font. myky........ __________________ myky