Early Borchardt rounds-powder?

TennBill2 · 05-27-2011, 12:40 PM

I was noticing in ( a copy) of the original DWM Borchardt manual, in English, it referred to the test as being: "proved with a charge of 5,6 gramms of Black Powder". The normal cartridge is listed as being ",45 gramms", which I calculate to be about 34 grains, which seems possible for the cartridge size. The question really is what kind of powder did they use originally? Seems, about that time/era, there was 'Poudre B' (blanche) known as Pyrocellulose, and 'Poudre Noire' which I guess could be translated as 'Black Powder'. This apparently followed by Cordite. Would the early Borchardt cartridges have been loaded with what we call Black Powder?

sheepherder · 05-27-2011, 01:50 PM

My converter says 5.6 grams = 86.42 grains..."Grammes" is not listed...Maybe the old-style spelling???

4.5 grams = 69.44 grains (I hope that ,45 grams is a typo)...

Don't know if there is a conversion factor for real black powder...

TennBill2 · 05-27-2011, 04:06 PM

No mistake, powder is listed as."...0,45 gramm". I'm not sure of this either, that's why the post. Maybe the two m's in gram was some kind of translation, or as you said old English. I guess the European "," (comma) is used as we use a "." I'm pretty sure the proof charge would be signifigantly higher. Using my little powder scale, I noted they list the total round's weight at "10,55" (gramm), I measured a standard 30 Mauser round at 10.95 grams, The casing listed as "4,60", a Mauser shell only, with primer, at 4.70 grams. Pretty close!

TennBill2 · 05-27-2011, 04:14 PM

I used the avg. of 15.40 divided by .45 to come up with 34.1..or2 grains. 1 gram =15.4323584 grains. Again, the whole point goes to whether or not Black Powder could have been used in the early rounds. Math makes my head swim........!

05-27-2011, 12:40 PM	#1
TennBill2 RIP Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 101 Thanks: 0 Thanked 17 Times in 6 Posts	Early Borchardt rounds-powder? I was noticing in ( a copy) of the original DWM Borchardt manual, in English, it referred to the test as being: "proved with a charge of 5,6 gramms of Black Powder". The normal cartridge is listed as being ",45 gramms", which I calculate to be about 34 grains, which seems possible for the cartridge size. The question really is what kind of powder did they use originally? Seems, about that time/era, there was 'Poudre B' (blanche) known as Pyrocellulose, and 'Poudre Noire' which I guess could be translated as 'Black Powder'. This apparently followed by Cordite. Would the early Borchardt cartridges have been loaded with what we call Black Powder?

05-27-2011, 01:50 PM	#2
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,182 Thanks: 1,398 Thanked 4,440 Times in 2,328 Posts	My converter says 5.6 grams = 86.42 grains..."Grammes" is not listed...Maybe the old-style spelling??? 4.5 grams = 69.44 grains (I hope that ,45 grams is a typo)... Don't know if there is a conversion factor for real black powder... __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

05-27-2011, 04:06 PM	#3
TennBill2 RIP Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 101 Thanks: 0 Thanked 17 Times in 6 Posts	Gramms? No mistake, powder is listed as."...0,45 gramm". I'm not sure of this either, that's why the post. Maybe the two m's in gram was some kind of translation, or as you said old English. I guess the European "," (comma) is used as we use a "." I'm pretty sure the proof charge would be signifigantly higher. Using my little powder scale, I noted they list the total round's weight at "10,55" (gramm), I measured a standard 30 Mauser round at 10.95 grams, The casing listed as "4,60", a Mauser shell only, with primer, at 4.70 grams. Pretty close!

05-27-2011, 04:14 PM	#4
TennBill2 RIP Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 101 Thanks: 0 Thanked 17 Times in 6 Posts	converting grams to grains I used the avg. of 15.40 divided by .45 to come up with 34.1..or2 grains. 1 gram =15.4323584 grains. Again, the whole point goes to whether or not Black Powder could have been used in the early rounds. Math makes my head swim........!