Walther P1's and P38's at J&G

Gary H · 04-28-2011, 04:16 PM

I recently noticed that J&G sales has postwar Walther P38's/P1's for sale for around $370+. I note that the frames are aluminum alloy. Is this a reasonable price for such guns with an extra mag and holster?

Gary H

Edward Tinker · 04-28-2011, 04:58 PM

They were cheaper before they became C&R

alanint · 04-28-2011, 05:26 PM

Last one I bought at a gun show was $199 out the door!

FNorm · 04-28-2011, 06:13 PM

One caution: Don't shoot hollow points in an aluminum frame. They bung up the feed ramp.

FN

mrerick · 04-28-2011, 06:44 PM

The Walther P1 had an engineering change modification implemented in the early 1970's in order to eliminate frame battering just above the trigger guard area.

In the modified P-1 pistols, you'll see a Hex shaped steel bar inserted across the frame. The modification helps deal with higher pressure (NATO) 9mm rounds.

There is much discussion about this modification over at the P38 Forum site. All of the P-1 pistols I've received recently had the modification, but sometimes you get one without it. Many were done by Walther prior to shipping them to the Germans. Some were through one or two re-works.

AIM had some for $319 a few months ago, but they have sold out. I bought one of these, and it was brand new - never issued.

FGS Firearms has them for $370 also... They are listed as new.

These came from the German Bundeswehr and are great pistols. I'm left handed, and having a pistol that ejects up instead of across my face is a nice experience...

Marc

Gary H · 04-28-2011, 08:45 PM

Thanks! I just looked at the FGS site and it says their P1's are new in box for $369.50. I wonder where they came up with new ones? And do you think these ones have the bar inserts?

Gary H

mrerick · 04-28-2011, 09:38 PM

The Germans surplus sales made quite a few of these available through different C&R dealers. FGS has had them for quite a while. All the ones I have are BW Bundeswehr marked.

I would call FGS and tell them you'd like one with the hex reinforcement. They have been good to deal with, and probably would work with you.

Marc

John Sabato · 04-29-2011, 08:21 AM

The "new" ones are very likely German military warehouse stock that were never issued. While they don't have a lot of collector value at the present time, they are certainly great shooters and self defense guns at this price.

sheepherder · 04-29-2011, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary H

Thanks! I just looked at the FGS site and it says their P1's are new in box for $369.50. I wonder where they came up with new ones? And do you think these ones have the bar inserts?

Gary H

Kind of a high price, IMO...If you do a Search here, you'll find a couple dealers that had them for less than $250 just a few months ago (when I bought mine)...

I wouldn't balk at buying a P1 without the hex bolt...IIRC, from posts on the P38 forum, there were only problems after thousands of rounds...

...And one of our members posted pics of his early P1 which he had pressed in a piece of drill rod (IIRC) where the hex bolt is on later P1's...

Shooting white-box Wal-Mart 9mm shouldn't hurt an unmodified P1...

[The views expressed here are the opinion of Postino and not the management or owners of LugerForums©]

alanint · 04-29-2011, 09:31 AM

My last P1 was chosen from a whole crate precisely for its early date, (1958). They carry different markings along the right side of the slide.

I was attracted to the idea that it was made during that whole post war transition period.

(I don't want no stinking hex bolt!)

augustJ · 05-19-2011, 02:59 PM

Considering that brand new commercial issue P-38's (Civilian designation for the P-1after the 70's more or less) were 1,000 dollars NEW in the box, yes, I think that is a very good price. This is like the German equal to what our Colt 1911's would be.

augustJ · 05-20-2011, 12:08 AM

Did you guys ever hear the rumor that the guy at the genuine Walther repair place in the US was spreading that the BW marked P-1's are German Police training pistols made of inferior parts that will break? I have over 2,000 rounds through my P-1 and it works great and no pin.

sheepherder · 05-20-2011, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FNorm

One caution: Don't shoot hollow points in an aluminum frame. They bung up the feed ramp.

FN

I have to wonder at this pronouncement, Fred...I've owned & shot hundreds of rounds in a Colt Commander with an aluminum frame, and carried & qualified with a 'training' Beretta M9 (used only for AFRES pistol qualification) and never had any feed ramp issues...I could see the ramp battering the hollowpoints, maybe...

I have a P1 w/aluminum frame, but I don't shoot hollowpoints...(in anything)...No wear/marks at all on the feed ramp...I can still see the mill cutter striations...

How about posting a pic of that poor battered feed ramp, old buddy...

Here's the ramp on my P1...I put 200 rds WalMart white box through this + two other 9mm's...Not exactly sure how many through this, but ~65 or so...Cleaned meticulously afterward...

I have to wonder what hollowpoints you used...Silvertips maybe??? Something harder than aluminum???

JD · 05-23-2011, 04:04 PM

For what it's worth, my standard loads for the 9mm utilize either a Remington 115 grain jhp or 124 grain jhp, and with more than a thousand rounds through one of my P-1's the feed ramp shows no adverse effects. I've also put several hundred rounds of the excellent Federal 9bp ammo loaded with 115 grain jhp through my P-1's with no ill effects. Both my handloads with the Remington bullets and the Federal 9bp loads function perfectly through all of my P-1's. For that matter, my handloads with the Remington jhp's function perfectly through my lugers also.

alanint · 05-23-2011, 04:28 PM

Rich,

I'm pretty sure that if you post a side photo of just the frame, with a magazine in place holding a hollow point round you will find that the round sits above the frame's ramp and never actually comes in contact with the frame at all in the P38.

sheepherder · 05-23-2011, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanint

Rich,

I'm pretty sure that if you post a side photo of just the frame, with a magazine in place holding a hollow point round you will find that the round sits above the frame's ramp and never actually comes in contact with the frame at all in the P38.

Here's my P38 in front and the P1 in back...It would appear that if the round was pushed straight forward, it *would* hit the ramp...but if it cocked up while sliding forward, it probably wouldn't...

However, you're preaching to the choir...My ramp looks almost unused...It's Fred who says the ramp gets beat...

sheepherder · 05-23-2011, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary H

I recently noticed that J&G sales has postwar Walther P38's/P1's for sale for around $370+. I note that the frames are aluminum alloy. Is this a reasonable price for such guns with an extra mag and holster?

Gary H

Getting back to the original poster's question [coff, coff], yes, I would say that a P38 or P1 for half of what a Luger is selling for is a good deal...

Edit: BTW, my RC/VoPo refurb feed ramp looks brand new as well...I don't know if the East Germans re-cut the ramp, but mine doesn't look like it was fired at all...The re-blueing is still intact (and this is one of the 3 I shot 200 rds through)...

04-28-2011, 04:16 PM	#1
Gary H User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Washington State Posts: 31 Thanks: 22 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Walther P1's and P38's at J&G I recently noticed that J&G sales has postwar Walther P38's/P1's for sale for around $370+. I note that the frames are aluminum alloy. Is this a reasonable price for such guns with an extra mag and holster? Gary H

04-28-2011, 04:58 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,967 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,596 Times in 2,117 Posts	They were cheaper before they became C&R __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

04-28-2011, 06:44 PM	#5
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,920 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,135 Times in 1,518 Posts	Walther P-1 The Walther P1 had an engineering change modification implemented in the early 1970's in order to eliminate frame battering just above the trigger guard area. In the modified P-1 pistols, you'll see a Hex shaped steel bar inserted across the frame. The modification helps deal with higher pressure (NATO) 9mm rounds. There is much discussion about this modification over at the P38 Forum site. All of the P-1 pistols I've received recently had the modification, but sometimes you get one without it. Many were done by Walther prior to shipping them to the Germans. Some were through one or two re-works. AIM had some for $319 a few months ago, but they have sold out. I bought one of these, and it was brand new - never issued. FGS Firearms has them for $370 also... They are listed as new. These came from the German Bundeswehr and are great pistols. I'm left handed, and having a pistol that ejects up instead of across my face is a nice experience... Marc Attached Thumbnails __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

04-28-2011, 09:38 PM	#7
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,920 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,135 Times in 1,518 Posts	The Germans surplus sales made quite a few of these available through different C&R dealers. FGS has had them for quite a while. All the ones I have are BW Bundeswehr marked. I would call FGS and tell them you'd like one with the hex reinforcement. They have been good to deal with, and probably would work with you. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

04-29-2011, 08:21 AM	#8
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	The "new" ones are very likely German military warehouse stock that were never issued. While they don't have a lot of collector value at the present time, they are certainly great shooters and self defense guns at this price. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

04-28-2011, 05:26 PM	#3
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	Last one I bought at a gun show was $199 out the door!

04-28-2011, 06:13 PM	#4
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	One caution: Don't shoot hollow points in an aluminum frame. They bung up the feed ramp. FN

04-28-2011, 08:45 PM	#6
Gary H User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Washington State Posts: 31 Thanks: 22 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Thanks! I just looked at the FGS site and it says their P1's are new in box for $369.50. I wonder where they came up with new ones? And do you think these ones have the bar inserts? Gary H

04-29-2011, 09:31 AM	#10
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	My last P1 was chosen from a whole crate precisely for its early date, (1958). They carry different markings along the right side of the slide. I was attracted to the idea that it was made during that whole post war transition period. (I don't want no stinking hex bolt!)

05-19-2011, 02:59 PM	#11
augustJ Banned Join Date: May 2011 Location: Winterhaven Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Considering that brand new commercial issue P-38's (Civilian designation for the P-1after the 70's more or less) were 1,000 dollars NEW in the box, yes, I think that is a very good price. This is like the German equal to what our Colt 1911's would be.

05-20-2011, 12:08 AM	#12
augustJ Banned Join Date: May 2011 Location: Winterhaven Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Did you guys ever hear the rumor that the guy at the genuine Walther repair place in the US was spreading that the BW marked P-1's are German Police training pistols made of inferior parts that will break? I have over 2,000 rounds through my P-1 and it works great and no pin.

05-23-2011, 04:04 PM	#14
JD User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Western Washington Posts: 107 Thanks: 58 Thanked 22 Times in 17 Posts	For what it's worth, my standard loads for the 9mm utilize either a Remington 115 grain jhp or 124 grain jhp, and with more than a thousand rounds through one of my P-1's the feed ramp shows no adverse effects. I've also put several hundred rounds of the excellent Federal 9bp ammo loaded with 115 grain jhp through my P-1's with no ill effects. Both my handloads with the Remington bullets and the Federal 9bp loads function perfectly through all of my P-1's. For that matter, my handloads with the Remington jhp's function perfectly through my lugers also.

05-23-2011, 04:28 PM	#15
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	Rich, I'm pretty sure that if you post a side photo of just the frame, with a magazine in place holding a hollow point round you will find that the round sits above the frame's ramp and never actually comes in contact with the frame at all in the P38.