1910 .30 Luger

[raygun]

I would like to add a .30 Luger to my collection and this one has come up in an auction, but it is a bit of a mystery to me !?

" EARLY DWM P08 LUGER SEMI AUTOMATIC PISTOL: 1910; 30 Luger; 8 shot; 121mm (4¾") barrel; exc bore; frame with 80% blue finish; barrel & side plate more silver grey finish; Regimental marks I.G.U.5.1.8.; exc grips with sml chip below safety catch; all matching numbers including mag although no numbers to barrel or side plate; exc wo & cond. #6862 "

Any ideas to whom such a weapon may have been issued to ??

thanks
chris
from down under

[DavidJayUden]

Send a link to the auction and we may be of more assistance. The description seems contradictory but seeing it may help.
dju

[lugerholsterrepair]

Chris, It's a converted military pistol. It was made with a 9MM barrel and someone changed it out. Killed a good Imperial weapon IMO and made it into a shooter.
although no numbers to barrel or side plate ..now a shooter with an incorrect barrel AND sideplate. If you are just wanting a shooter..$600-700 tops but that's what it is.

[Ron Smith]

I.G.U.5.1.8 would be 1st Battallion Garde Ulanen Regt. 5 weapon 8. It sounds as though it was rebarreled with a Swiss Luger barrel. As Jerry says, it's now a shooter, with a very nice unit mark. Kind of a shame.

Ron

[raygun]

HMMM thats a bit scary , glad I asked! I can't imagine anyone in Aust changing the barrel , it must have been done a long time ago. here is a link to the auction site , scroll down to no. 209. There are quite a few Lugers on it and I was going to enter a bid on 181 a bit rough looking but looks original with a matching mag ! 190 looks good - pity about the chipped grip!

any ideas about 169, Erfurt made in 1921 !? would it be a comercial !? thought they would have been prohibited from manufacture about then, after the War. thanks for the help

http://www.australianarmsauctions.co...e_online_2.htm

[alanint]

I was under the impression that Australia had initiated a total gun ban. Are there special conditions for collectors and collector's guns?

[Ron Wood]

Originally Posted by raygun

any ideas about 169, Erfurt made in 1921 !? would it be a comercial !? thought they would have been prohibited from manufacture about then, after the War. thanks for the help

Erfurt was a military arsenal and never made a commercial Luger. They also never made one in 1921...the auction description is obviously in error.

[Ron Smith]

"any ideas about 169, Erfurt made in 1921 !? would it be a comercial !? thought they would have been prohibited from manufacture about then, after the War."

Erfurt was the Gov't arsenal. They stopped producing Lugers in 1918. The proofs shown on the right side would indicate a military Erfurt.

The "1921" date is confusing. Under the 1920 Disarming of the People edict, all military weapons were to be Property Marked with the year of the order "1920". I have seen "double date" weapons marked with 1917 / 1921, 1918 / 1921, etc. instead of 1920. This is most likely due to confusion in following out the marking order. If this is one marked in error? It should have the year of manufacture on the receiver also,

DWM produced Lugers under military and police contract in 1920 and 1921, Erfurt did not.

Ron

[raygun]

Thanks for advise from Ron W and Ron S. I shall investigate further. Will answer question about Aust Gun laws when time permits, but no, there is no blanket gun ban, just some tough laws and lots of paperwork!

Just enjoyed a great weekend shooting my Lugers and P38!

chris

[raygun]

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

Erfurt was a military arsenal and never made a commercial Luger. They also never made one in 1921...the auction description is obviously in error.

exactly right, I asked them to send me a picture of the top of the receiver , turns out the "21" is the last two digits in the serial number that we are all familiar with on the toggle etc. the actual date on the receiver or cannon ring is 1914 !! someone at the auction house having a "senior" moment !

So it appears to be a nice original 1914 Erfurt with about 70% of the original finish. so I'm going to put in a bid -- wish me luck.

actually I have picked out 3 of the best lugers in the auction and am going to bid on them all !! hopefully I will get one or two. if I get them all I will be out a few thousand dollars and in for a heap of paperwork !!

[raygun]

Originally Posted by alanint

I was under the impression that Australia had initiated a total gun ban. Are there special conditions for collectors and collector's guns?

Doug , just briefly , the only things effectively banned here are semi auto rifles and machine guns . we can have them on a collectors license only if deactivated . However dealers, armourers or theatrical ordinance suppliers can have them largely intact.

All firearms even air rifles have to be registered , an everyone who wants to own a firearm has to have a license.

The most common license is a simple long arms license for which you have to do a safety course and join a shooting club or have written permission from a property owner to hunt and shoot on that property [ farm or ranch]. there is very little shooting allowed on Crown [government controlled] land.

For this license you can own a bolt action, lever action or pump action .22 rimfire repeater or centrefire up to 8mm calibre, and a lever action or double barrel shotgun.

Pump action shotguns up to 5 rounds, semi auto .22 rifles up to 10 rounds are in a higher cattegory and difficult to get unless you are a farmer or primary producer, involved in feral pest destruction or have an instructors license.

It is also possible to get a semi auto centrefire rifle license which has to be renewed every 12 months if as a primary producer you can prove a need . Instructors can have them for instructional purposes only.

Handguns of most types can be owned if you are a member of a pistol club , but you must participate in at least 6 competitions a year and keep an attendance card.

There is also a collectors license and you can collect a large variety of rifles and pistols made before 1946 if you are in a collectors club. If you want to collect anything made later than that , you have to come up with a pretty good story and satisfy the "Authorised officer" of "weapons licensing branch"

On top of that you have to apply for a "permit to acquire" and give a reason for each and every individual firearm you wish to purchase !!

So you can see what i mean when i say " a lot of paperwork"

I'm sure it sounds like your worst nightmare over there !?

Despite all this , in my state alone at least a couple of hundred people do their compulsory weapons act safety course every weekend, as a prerequisite to getting their firearms license, and the police get 5 to 6 hundred applications for a permit to acquire a firearm every week. They have about a 100 staff and are always struggling to keep up with the demand.

we continue to have a stong gun lobby and are making some progress at improving things , but the main thing needed is a change in attitude in the major political parties.

The political party that introduced these laws in my state has now been out of power for 14 years ! I think they have finally got the message !!

[hansfischer007]

In my opinion....Life is short.....Go for it..!!...and as you say you might wind up with one of the three....but your stars may be aligned just right and you will get all there...I know ..first reaction will kinda take your breath away....but think what fun it will be when all three arrive.....I wish you luck..!!..Hans Fischer

[raygun]

Originally Posted by hansfischer007

In my opinion....Life is short.....Go for it..!!...and as you say you might wind up with one of the three....but your stars may be aligned just right and you will get all there...I know ..first reaction will kinda take your breath away....but think what fun it will be when all three arrive.....I wish you luck..!!..Hans Fischer

Thanks mate , well said ! Just had an E mail from the auction house and so far I am the High Bidder on all three Lugers !!
But a week to go -- here's hoping!

[rhuff]

Good Luck on your bidding.....you can never own too many Lugers!!

[Douglas Jr.]

Ray,

Good luck with your bids, mate!
Interesting leson about Aussie gun control - people around here has a completely different sight. Good to know! Actually, your laws are very similar to ours down here. Those bloody no-guns politicians are everywhere, aren't they?

Greetings from Brazil,

Douglas

[raygun]

Originally Posted by Douglas Jr.

Ray,

Good luck with your bids, mate!
Interesting leson about Aussie gun control - people around here has a completely different sight. Good to know! Actually, your laws are very similar to ours down here. Those bloody no-guns politicians are everywhere, aren't they?

Greetings from Brazil,

Douglas

Hello Doug , nice to hear from another fellow from the "southern Hemisphere" ! and on a similar line of lattitude !

You will be pleased to know that the results of the auction are in and I won the 181 lot -- a 1918 Erfurt, all matching including the Mag ! it only has about 15% of the original finish , but at least it is original, and Lugers with matching mags are unheard of out here. that was the main reason I bought it.

I had quite high bids in on the others but someone else was determined to take them home and out bid me by $100. on each.

Even more amazing , someone paid $3,600. for a snail drum mag !! hows that ! I thought about $1800. would be tops.

Doug , you will be even more pleased to know I also got a Mint Brazilian Mauser in 7x 57. about 1908 I think. Complete with matching numbered bayonet ! It is no. 26 on the auction site in the thread above.

Just have to wait for them to arrive now !

[Douglas Jr.]

Originally Posted by raygun

Doug , you will be even more pleased to know I also got a Mint Brazilian Mauser in 7x 57. about 1908 I think. Complete with matching numbered bayonet ! It is no. 26 on the auction site in the thread above.

Just have to wait for them to arrive now !

You did nice with the Mauser 1908! Great gun to own. It is almost identical to the Gewehr 98, except for the rear sight and caliber, of course. The Brazilian Army bought so many of them (around 400,000) that a good number remained unissued for decades and were sold to surplus dealers almost intact. Your seems to be the case. Now you just need to find a Brazilian Luger to match!

Please, post pictures of your Erfurt later, mate (as well as the Mauser M1908).

Congratulations!

Douglas.