First Luger, whaddya think?

BryceM · 03-30-2011, 09:22 PM

I recently acquired my first Luger, a 1917 Erfurt model in .30 caliber:

This pistol has obviously been neglected for several years as I found rust in a few areas. The action and field-strip lever were pretty sticky prior to a preliminary cleaning.

This photo is from my cell phone in flat light. I'll shoot some decent ones with a real camera when I get a minute.

As far as I can tell, it has been rebarrelled at some point, interestingly still at .309 caliber. Everything else has matching serials, including the magazine. The number on the mag is very difficult to make out due to wear but it is a match.

The bore shows no pitting and there really isn't any serious wear.

I really enjoyed stripping it down. The German engineering is fantastic in its complexity and in its simplicity. I can see why people go nuts for these.

I bought this for $800. Sound about right? I really want a shooter and I'm not so much interested in a high-value collector or museum piece. I've got some Fiocchi .30 ammo on the way. Since the barrel isn't original, maybe I'll rebarrel it to 9mm someday.

I'm no gunsmith, but the finish looks original and there isn't any flattening of the stamps or original factory metalwork as far as I can tell. The grips are slightly loose. I hope after a good cleaning they tighten up a bit.

Anything I need to watch out for before firing it? The action and the mag look to be in good shape. Everything fits well.

Newbie interested in your thoughts.......

Hugo Borchardt · 03-30-2011, 09:28 PM

Welcome! Congratulations and welcome to the club. One of our motto's here is "You can't have just one". I think you did just fine on the price.

I'd trust some of the others for advice on firing; I just collect 'em.

MFC · 03-31-2011, 12:50 AM

Hi Bryce,
I betcha it will be a tack driver. After shooting the 30 Luger you might not want the 9mm barrel after all. Don't use the original wood bottom mag for shooting. The 94 year old wood can become brittle. Combined with the pressure of the spring and the shock of firing, it can crack.

lugerholsterrepair · 03-31-2011, 01:55 AM

Bryce, Congratulations and welcome..I agree with Mark..I like the .30 much better than the 9MM Just a lot of difference in the cost of ammo.

Can you get us a good photo of where the barrel enters the reciever? This looks to be awfully thin on your pistol. Any markings on the barrel?

sheepherder · 03-31-2011, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lugerholsterrepair

Can you get us a good photo of where the barrel enters the reciever? This looks to be awfully thin on your pistol...

...As in no flange at all...and a double taper...Front sight blade is not Luger either...

Also, the 'proofs' on the right side of the receiver look...strange...

I like the 7.65 Luger cartridge...

BryceM · 03-31-2011, 08:46 AM

Where is the best place to find a mag to shoot with? The original is a little flimsy at this point and very stiff. I loaded a few 9mm rounds just to check the mag. They loaded more or less OK, but a newer mag is probably a good idea.

I'll try to post some good photos of the proofs and the barrel / receiver area. No markings on this barrel at all as far as I can see so far.

alanint · 03-31-2011, 08:56 AM

Mec Gar out of Italy makes the best after market magazines for the Luger. Google these and you should find a number of dealers who offer them.

BryceM · 03-31-2011, 10:07 AM

Sweet. I'll look into it. This forum rocks. You guys ever do anything else?

FNorm · 03-31-2011, 10:39 AM

Sweet. I'll look into it. This forum rocks. You guys ever do anything else?

[/QUOTE]

NAH! We sit here an drool Lugers all day.

FN

lugerholsterrepair · 03-31-2011, 11:08 AM

Bryce..Seriously I would take a good close look at the barrel before you fire this weapon. It appears to be home made, not correct and out of spec.

alanint · 03-31-2011, 12:10 PM

Bryce,

Take Jerry's advice. He is a very wise man!

Do I possibly also detect a slight bulge in the middle?
Bryce, please look into the bore and see if there are any irregularities in the rifling/inner dimentions. A certified gunsmith should look at this gun prior to firing it. It may have been sold off for a reason.
Good Luck!

John Sabato · 03-31-2011, 01:36 PM

I see what you mean by the lack of a barrel flange. This could be a problem, but only time can tell... The receiver was designed to have a full flange, but can function with a limited flange provided the barrel is torqued adequately. What is adequate? With a full flange, usually 1/8th turn is usually about right. With a reduced flange? who knows.

My recommendation would be the same as Jerry...make sure the headspace is correct. Then make sure you have a witness mark so you can periodically check it for movement.

The way such a barrel as shown happens is that the person doing the conversion chooses a rifle barrel that doesn't have sufficient diameter in the chamber area to provide a flange. It may be that the person who did this conversion didn't have more than one barrel to choose from...

BryceM · 03-31-2011, 04:41 PM

Yes, I'll have somebody smarter than me take a look. Worst case is that I get it re-barreled. Now I wonder if the barrel is .308 or .309. I'm not aware of many .309 rifle barrels. Are there original Luger barrels out there?

BryceM · 03-31-2011, 09:43 PM

Here are a few more photos. I'd be interested to see what you think about the proof marks and the barrel configuration:

Thanks for looking! I have photos of just about every surface so let me know if you would like another view. ..... and no, the targets are not from this gun!

BryceM · 06-09-2011, 04:54 PM

I just got this gun back from Tom Heller who gave it some TLC. It got a new 4" barrel and a spring to match the .30 Luger it had been chambered for. I haven't fired it yet, but he did and said it feeds and shoots nicely! I re-finished the grips too (twice - too dark the first time).

I'm still interested to see what people think about the proof marks on the photos above. Thanks for looking.

BTW, I got a Mec-Gar mag to use for shooting. These better photos really make the finish look more worn than is apparent in-hand. The ol' girl obviously has a few miles on her, but hopefully now she at least looks right and is good for shooting again.

wlyon · 06-09-2011, 05:20 PM

Should make a good hooter. Can't tell about the proofs.One looks overstruck. I believe
the gun has been refinished so hard to tell. Hopefully someone else will answer. Welcome to the forum. And remember lugers are habit forming. Bill

Ron Wood · 06-09-2011, 05:58 PM

Gotta love them hooters!

alanint · 06-09-2011, 06:03 PM

Definetly refinished. Look at the Erfurt Crown on the toggle....

wlyon · 06-09-2011, 06:22 PM

Ron
Old age is hell. At my age shooter, hooters no difference. Bill

Ron Wood · 06-09-2011, 07:12 PM

Bill,
I can relate to that

.

03-30-2011, 09:22 PM	#1
BryceM User Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	First Luger, whaddya think? - * New Pics * I recently acquired my first Luger, a 1917 Erfurt model in .30 caliber: This pistol has obviously been neglected for several years as I found rust in a few areas. The action and field-strip lever were pretty sticky prior to a preliminary cleaning. This photo is from my cell phone in flat light. I'll shoot some decent ones with a real camera when I get a minute. As far as I can tell, it has been rebarrelled at some point, interestingly still at .309 caliber. Everything else has matching serials, including the magazine. The number on the mag is very difficult to make out due to wear but it is a match. The bore shows no pitting and there really isn't any serious wear. I really enjoyed stripping it down. The German engineering is fantastic in its complexity and in its simplicity. I can see why people go nuts for these. I bought this for $800. Sound about right? I really want a shooter and I'm not so much interested in a high-value collector or museum piece. I've got some Fiocchi .30 ammo on the way. Since the barrel isn't original, maybe I'll rebarrel it to 9mm someday. I'm no gunsmith, but the finish looks original and there isn't any flattening of the stamps or original factory metalwork as far as I can tell. The grips are slightly loose. I hope after a good cleaning they tighten up a bit. Anything I need to watch out for before firing it? The action and the mag look to be in good shape. Everything fits well. Newbie interested in your thoughts....... Last edited by BryceM; 06-09-2011 at 04:45 PM.

03-30-2011, 09:28 PM	#2
Hugo Borchardt User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Tennessee Posts: 372 Thanks: 340 Thanked 143 Times in 48 Posts	Welcome! Congratulations and welcome to the club. One of our motto's here is "You can't have just one". I think you did just fine on the price. I'd trust some of the others for advice on firing; I just collect 'em. __________________ My militaria collection is dedicated to the memory of my Grandfather, Marine Gunnery Sergeant Dave Hill, Jr., wounded in action at The Assault of the Second Marine Division on Betio Island, Tarawa Atoll, 20-23 November, 1943. http://www.tarawa1943.com/pages/casualties%20tarawa.htm

03-31-2011, 12:50 AM	#3
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	Hi Bryce, I betcha it will be a tack driver. After shooting the 30 Luger you might not want the 9mm barrel after all. Don't use the original wood bottom mag for shooting. The 94 year old wood can become brittle. Combined with the pressure of the spring and the shock of firing, it can crack. __________________ Mike C.

03-31-2011, 01:55 AM	#4
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,133 Times in 1,439 Posts	Bryce, Congratulations and welcome..I agree with Mark..I like the .30 much better than the 9MM Just a lot of difference in the cost of ammo. Can you get us a good photo of where the barrel enters the reciever? This looks to be awfully thin on your pistol. Any markings on the barrel? __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

03-31-2011, 11:08 AM	#10
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,133 Times in 1,439 Posts	Bryce..Seriously I would take a good close look at the barrel before you fire this weapon. It appears to be home made, not correct and out of spec. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

03-31-2011, 08:46 AM	#6
BryceM User Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Where is the best place to find a mag to shoot with? The original is a little flimsy at this point and very stiff. I loaded a few 9mm rounds just to check the mag. They loaded more or less OK, but a newer mag is probably a good idea. I'll try to post some good photos of the proofs and the barrel / receiver area. No markings on this barrel at all as far as I can see so far.

03-31-2011, 08:56 AM	#7
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	Mec Gar out of Italy makes the best after market magazines for the Luger. Google these and you should find a number of dealers who offer them.

03-31-2011, 10:07 AM	#8
BryceM User Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Sweet. I'll look into it. This forum rocks. You guys ever do anything else?

03-31-2011, 10:39 AM	#9
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	Sweet. I'll look into it. This forum rocks. You guys ever do anything else? [/QUOTE] NAH! We sit here an drool Lugers all day. FN

03-31-2011, 12:10 PM	#11
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	Bryce, Take Jerry's advice. He is a very wise man! Do I possibly also detect a slight bulge in the middle? Bryce, please look into the bore and see if there are any irregularities in the rifling/inner dimentions. A certified gunsmith should look at this gun prior to firing it. It may have been sold off for a reason. Good Luck! Last edited by alanint; 06-09-2011 at 05:59 PM.

03-31-2011, 01:36 PM	#12
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	I see what you mean by the lack of a barrel flange. This could be a problem, but only time can tell... The receiver was designed to have a full flange, but can function with a limited flange provided the barrel is torqued adequately. What is adequate? With a full flange, usually 1/8th turn is usually about right. With a reduced flange? who knows. My recommendation would be the same as Jerry...make sure the headspace is correct. Then make sure you have a witness mark so you can periodically check it for movement. The way such a barrel as shown happens is that the person doing the conversion chooses a rifle barrel that doesn't have sufficient diameter in the chamber area to provide a flange. It may be that the person who did this conversion didn't have more than one barrel to choose from... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

03-31-2011, 04:41 PM	#13
BryceM User Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Yes, I'll have somebody smarter than me take a look. Worst case is that I get it re-barreled. Now I wonder if the barrel is .308 or .309. I'm not aware of many .309 rifle barrels. Are there original Luger barrels out there?

03-31-2011, 09:43 PM	#14
BryceM User Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Here are a few more photos. I'd be interested to see what you think about the proof marks and the barrel configuration: Thanks for looking! I have photos of just about every surface so let me know if you would like another view. ..... and no, the targets are not from this gun!

06-09-2011, 04:54 PM	#15
BryceM User Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I just got this gun back from Tom Heller who gave it some TLC. It got a new 4" barrel and a spring to match the .30 Luger it had been chambered for. I haven't fired it yet, but he did and said it feeds and shoots nicely! I re-finished the grips too (twice - too dark the first time). I'm still interested to see what people think about the proof marks on the photos above. Thanks for looking. BTW, I got a Mec-Gar mag to use for shooting. These better photos really make the finish look more worn than is apparent in-hand. The ol' girl obviously has a few miles on her, but hopefully now she at least looks right and is good for shooting again.

06-09-2011, 05:20 PM	#16
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,655 Thanks: 3,212 Thanked 2,619 Times in 971 Posts	Should make a good hooter. Can't tell about the proofs.One looks overstruck. I believe the gun has been refinished so hard to tell. Hopefully someone else will answer. Welcome to the forum. And remember lugers are habit forming. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

06-09-2011, 05:58 PM	#17
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,040 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,257 Times in 1,724 Posts	Gotta love them hooters! __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

06-09-2011, 06:03 PM	#18
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	Definetly refinished. Look at the Erfurt Crown on the toggle....

06-09-2011, 06:22 PM	#19
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,655 Thanks: 3,212 Thanked 2,619 Times in 971 Posts	Ron Old age is hell. At my age shooter, hooters no difference. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

06-09-2011, 07:12 PM	#20
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,040 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,257 Times in 1,724 Posts	Bill, I can relate to that . __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction