1920 German Commercial

mjanway · 02-25-2011, 04:08 PM

Hello

I have recently inherited several interesting weapons from my Dad who inherited them from his father. One of these is what a believe to be a 1920 German Commercial DWM Luger. The toggle inscription is "DWM", there is no chamber inscription. The toggle type is new (squared and knurled). There is no grip safety and there is a stock lug. The caliber is 7.65mm/.30 Luger. The grip is wood, no border, no inscriptions except for a "BM" scratched on the inside of the left grip. That is my grandfather's first two initials so I suppose that might have been his doing. This thumb safety is safe in the rear position and has "GESICHERT" inscribed behind it. There is a "N" under a crown on the left side of the chamber and on the bottom of the barrel. The serial number 8317 and letter suffix "i" is on the front of the chamber and on the bottom of the barrel. The last two digits of the serial number is on the rear toggle link, top of safety mechanism, bottom of locking bolt, and on the trigger plate at least. "Made in Germany" is inscribed on the forward part of the frame by the grips. The barrel length is 3-5/8". "GELADEN" is marked on the left side of the extractor. "V" fixed rear sight and blade front sight. The magazine has a wooden bottom plug with no markings. If someone could tell me if I am correct on the identification, I would really appreciate it.

Thanks,

Jack

sheepherder · 02-25-2011, 04:25 PM

Sounds like you nailed it pretty good.

...What are the other interesting weapons???

mjanway · 02-25-2011, 11:01 PM

Excellent, Thanks. Found a good book at the library and looking through this site, finally learned enough to use the book.

The other interesting weapons are a 1898 Krag and a 1943 M1 Carbine. The Krag was quite a challenge to research and the M1 appears to be easy. The rest appear to be a couple of old BB guns and three of what I would call Saturday Night Specials. Unfortunately the history behind these weapons passed away with my Dad. No other family members with knowledge of them are still around.

Jack

alanint · 02-25-2011, 11:28 PM

The 1943 M1 may the most valuable piece in the collection. If it is completely original WW2 configured, (not unusual in vets collections) and by the right manufacturer, it may be worth well over $1,000. Can you show us photos and provide manufaturer, serial number and barrel date?

DavidJayUden · 02-26-2011, 07:54 AM

I believe that there is a collector market for certain old B-B guns too.
dju

sheepherder · 02-26-2011, 08:55 AM

I think the Krag is the more interesting of the three...Especially if it is a carbine...

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

I believe that there is a collector market for certain old B-B guns too.
dju

On a related note, my local gun shop has 4 or 5 "Red Ryder" B-B guns on the shelf, boxed, new, ready to go...I presume Daisy makes them, and it's interesting that the brand/theme "Red Ryder" is still used, some 60 years after the TV show ended...and the 40's movies were rarely shown...I only vaguely remember the indian sidekick, "Little Beaver"...

mjanway · 02-26-2011, 03:09 PM

One of my son-in-laws really is fond of the M1 and may be actively plotting my demise to obtain it. The barrel is marked "INLAND MFG DIV, GENERAL MOTORS, 10 - 43" just behind the front sight. Between that and the stock, there is a "P". Receiver is marked "US CARBINE, CAL 30, M1". Rear sight is marked "I.R. CO. 7160060". The tang is marked "STANDARD PRODUCTS". The serial number is 2953846, however the "3" is my best guess as it is mostly covered by the rear sight which as I have read somewhere can be quite tricky to remove and my require expertise beyond my capabilities. The indentation on the left side of the rear stock has "S - HB" engraved into it.

Here are a couple of pictures. I wasn't sure what was needed in them so can take more specifics if need be and my camera skills improve.

Jack

mjanway · 02-26-2011, 03:20 PM

I am quite fond of the Krag myself. I suppose it may be because of having to lug it around in the middle of central Texas during deer season some 40 or so years ago. It is quite a mixed bag that I really am sad I did not get more history on it from my Dad.

The barrel is a Model 1898 rifle barrel. The stock is a Krag carbine stock of unknown year. The barrel had to have been cut down from it's original size to 22 inches to fit the carbine stock without looking too funny. The rear sight and handguard were missing to accomodate a scope (modern day). I managed to obtain a 1901 rifle rear sight and handguard for probably what it cost to obtain a whole platoon"s worth of Krags when the 1903 Springfield replaced them. (And those were the cheap ones).

So I have a mixture of a Krag, but it is all Krag.

Jack

mjanway · 02-26-2011, 03:26 PM

I really haven't started with looking at them yet. They are not in too good of shape. One of them is a Daisy and is quite intricately engraved. The other is a "Sears" model which I am hurting my brain trying to jog the memory of this one. I believe it was mine from childhood but can't quite remember. There is also a bb/pellet pump rifle but it looks quite new (25 years old or so) compared to the rest.

My son in law has his Red Ryder and the original box it came with from his childhood (30 or so years ago), so will have to take a peek at that.

Jack

alanint · 02-26-2011, 04:47 PM

You carbine is all WW2 with a very late issue type two rear sight. The rear sight is actually easy to remove. It just taps out of a dovetail. It is probably peened in anywhere from two to four places. If so, it makes no sense to restore it to the original flip sight since a collector will spot the peening and know it was retrofitted with an early sight. It is anyhow correct for late war.
It has the original configuration narrow barrel band, push button safety and 15 round magazine mag release, flat bolt and two rivet upper handguard. The stock looks like an original low wood stock.
The only detraction I see is that someone modified the front sight, either cutting off the protective sight ears or adapting some sort of commertial sight. I can't tell from the photos. This can be corrected by replacing with an original WW2 front sight.
Although Inland made more carbines than any other manufacturer, it's all there and worth from $1,200 to $1,400 in today's market, depending on close examination of any additional markings.

mjanway · 02-26-2011, 10:45 PM

Thanks for the great information. There is a gun show here next month where one of the exhibitors had a lot of carbine parts. I may be able to obtain that front sight or get a good lead on one. I planned on leaving that rear sight, just wanted to move it to confirm that one number in the serial number. I'm still sort of shy with these weapons but I suppose I will get over that with time. Now, I need study some information and give them a good cleaning.

02-25-2011, 04:08 PM	#1
mjanway User Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Topeka, Kansas Posts: 54 Thanks: 31 Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts	1920 German Commercial Hello I have recently inherited several interesting weapons from my Dad who inherited them from his father. One of these is what a believe to be a 1920 German Commercial DWM Luger. The toggle inscription is "DWM", there is no chamber inscription. The toggle type is new (squared and knurled). There is no grip safety and there is a stock lug. The caliber is 7.65mm/.30 Luger. The grip is wood, no border, no inscriptions except for a "BM" scratched on the inside of the left grip. That is my grandfather's first two initials so I suppose that might have been his doing. This thumb safety is safe in the rear position and has "GESICHERT" inscribed behind it. There is a "N" under a crown on the left side of the chamber and on the bottom of the barrel. The serial number 8317 and letter suffix "i" is on the front of the chamber and on the bottom of the barrel. The last two digits of the serial number is on the rear toggle link, top of safety mechanism, bottom of locking bolt, and on the trigger plate at least. "Made in Germany" is inscribed on the forward part of the frame by the grips. The barrel length is 3-5/8". "GELADEN" is marked on the left side of the extractor. "V" fixed rear sight and blade front sight. The magazine has a wooden bottom plug with no markings. If someone could tell me if I am correct on the identification, I would really appreciate it. Thanks, Jack Attached Thumbnails

02-25-2011, 04:25 PM	#2
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,197 Thanks: 1,416 Thanked 4,462 Times in 2,336 Posts	Sounds like you nailed it pretty good. ...What are the other interesting weapons??? __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

02-25-2011, 11:01 PM	#3
mjanway User Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Topeka, Kansas Posts: 54 Thanks: 31 Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts	1920 German Commercial Excellent, Thanks. Found a good book at the library and looking through this site, finally learned enough to use the book. The other interesting weapons are a 1898 Krag and a 1943 M1 Carbine. The Krag was quite a challenge to research and the M1 appears to be easy. The rest appear to be a couple of old BB guns and three of what I would call Saturday Night Specials. Unfortunately the history behind these weapons passed away with my Dad. No other family members with knowledge of them are still around. Jack

02-26-2011, 03:09 PM	#7
mjanway User Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Topeka, Kansas Posts: 54 Thanks: 31 Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts	M1 Carbine One of my son-in-laws really is fond of the M1 and may be actively plotting my demise to obtain it. The barrel is marked "INLAND MFG DIV, GENERAL MOTORS, 10 - 43" just behind the front sight. Between that and the stock, there is a "P". Receiver is marked "US CARBINE, CAL 30, M1". Rear sight is marked "I.R. CO. 7160060". The tang is marked "STANDARD PRODUCTS". The serial number is 2953846, however the "3" is my best guess as it is mostly covered by the rear sight which as I have read somewhere can be quite tricky to remove and my require expertise beyond my capabilities. The indentation on the left side of the rear stock has "S - HB" engraved into it. Here are a couple of pictures. I wasn't sure what was needed in them so can take more specifics if need be and my camera skills improve. Jack Attached Thumbnails

02-26-2011, 03:20 PM	#8
mjanway User Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Topeka, Kansas Posts: 54 Thanks: 31 Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts	Krag I am quite fond of the Krag myself. I suppose it may be because of having to lug it around in the middle of central Texas during deer season some 40 or so years ago. It is quite a mixed bag that I really am sad I did not get more history on it from my Dad. The barrel is a Model 1898 rifle barrel. The stock is a Krag carbine stock of unknown year. The barrel had to have been cut down from it's original size to 22 inches to fit the carbine stock without looking too funny. The rear sight and handguard were missing to accomodate a scope (modern day). I managed to obtain a 1901 rifle rear sight and handguard for probably what it cost to obtain a whole platoon"s worth of Krags when the 1903 Springfield replaced them. (And those were the cheap ones). So I have a mixture of a Krag, but it is all Krag. Jack

02-25-2011, 11:28 PM	#4
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	The 1943 M1 may the most valuable piece in the collection. If it is completely original WW2 configured, (not unusual in vets collections) and by the right manufacturer, it may be worth well over $1,000. Can you show us photos and provide manufaturer, serial number and barrel date?

02-26-2011, 07:54 AM	#5
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	I believe that there is a collector market for certain old B-B guns too. dju

02-26-2011, 03:26 PM	#9
mjanway User Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Topeka, Kansas Posts: 54 Thanks: 31 Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts	BB Guns I really haven't started with looking at them yet. They are not in too good of shape. One of them is a Daisy and is quite intricately engraved. The other is a "Sears" model which I am hurting my brain trying to jog the memory of this one. I believe it was mine from childhood but can't quite remember. There is also a bb/pellet pump rifle but it looks quite new (25 years old or so) compared to the rest. My son in law has his Red Ryder and the original box it came with from his childhood (30 or so years ago), so will have to take a peek at that. Jack

02-26-2011, 04:47 PM	#10
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	You carbine is all WW2 with a very late issue type two rear sight. The rear sight is actually easy to remove. It just taps out of a dovetail. It is probably peened in anywhere from two to four places. If so, it makes no sense to restore it to the original flip sight since a collector will spot the peening and know it was retrofitted with an early sight. It is anyhow correct for late war. It has the original configuration narrow barrel band, push button safety and 15 round magazine mag release, flat bolt and two rivet upper handguard. The stock looks like an original low wood stock. The only detraction I see is that someone modified the front sight, either cutting off the protective sight ears or adapting some sort of commertial sight. I can't tell from the photos. This can be corrected by replacing with an original WW2 front sight. Although Inland made more carbines than any other manufacturer, it's all there and worth from $1,200 to $1,400 in today's market, depending on close examination of any additional markings.

02-26-2011, 10:45 PM	#11
mjanway User Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Topeka, Kansas Posts: 54 Thanks: 31 Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts	Thanks for the great information. There is a gun show here next month where one of the exhibitors had a lot of carbine parts. I may be able to obtain that front sight or get a good lead on one. I planned on leaving that rear sight, just wanted to move it to confirm that one number in the serial number. I'm still sort of shy with these weapons but I suppose I will get over that with time. Now, I need study some information and give them a good cleaning.