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mrerick · 01-30-2011, 11:17 PM

Doug,

Congratulations again on a very early Luger. The Crown/B Crown/U Crown/G proof marks were used on the early commercial Lugers.

The front dimension of the receiver / breech block and extractor are quite different in the early Lugers. These were revised in the 1900/06 and 1906 specifications. Therefore the firing pin components must be the ones for your specific model.

This one should be in the 7.65 x 21 mm Luger Parabellum (.30 Luger) caliber. You should find that a standard No.2 pencil will just fit into the barrel. Here's info on the ammo:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.65x21mm_Parabellum

This model Luger also used a "S" shaped leaf style rather than coiled recoil spring. If you have not already done, consider carefully removing the grip panels to check the condition of the recoil spring.

You have a very early Luger and it is collectible. It would probably be wise to not try and fire it since you could risk breaking parts, especially since there may be corrosion that is not visible.

Ask Tom Heller about a firing pin and extractor. Also post on this website in the Wanted section.

Collectors would recommend that you not modify the Luger in any way. That said, it may be possible for a restorer to fix some of the corrosion issues if that is important to you.

Cheers!

Marc

Ron Wood · 01-31-2011, 01:29 AM

Doug,
That is a VERY early commercial Luger and a real treasure. As the other guys have indicated, there are not many other pieces around that are earlier than that one. Generally it is in very nice condition. It is unfortunate that there are some very pitted areas, but surprisingly few and scattered considering it was rescued from a stream! Evidently it spent considerable time inside a wet holster.
The magazine shown is from a later production than the gun indicating that the gun was factory modified to accept this later type magazine. It would be worth a little more if it was unmodified as examples are quite scarce. But, it is a correct, period modification that does not significantly affect the value of the gun.
Your father has given you a significant historical gun. The story behind the gun is great and I am very grateful to your father for his service and for still being around to share the experiences.
The gun is worthy of a proper restoration. There are only a few craftsmen that are capable of doing it right and it would be a little expensive. So you probably will want to let it alone as it is and enjoy it and its history. If you do decide to restore it, please consult this forum for suggestions.
Thank you for sharing.
Ron

alanint · 01-31-2011, 01:29 AM

Congratulations on a very nice, early Luger!

Besides the firing pin, you will also need an extractor, which is either broken or missing on your gun. I can't see clearly enough on your photos.

Edward Tinker · 01-31-2011, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dukerusty

.. What do you mean exactly when you say "I don't like how the #128 looks"? ....

It looked funny to me, but now looks good. Like I said, I am no expert on early guns, I can say that I love it and I am jealous

I collect bring back stories, did I already say that?

If not, I do

Ed

dukerusty · 01-31-2011, 11:18 AM

Thanks for the great info. My Dad is trying to retrace his steps after the Germans ran them out of the "Bulge". As you all well know, our guys came back and kicked their butts! He has maps and some of a journal/diary. The stories this gun could tell, uh?. I will post or somehow send along what ever my Dad can construct. My Dad stayed in the Army Reserve for another 40 years and retired as a full Colonel in the "Civil Affairs" unit out of L.A.. At the same time worked his way up from a school teacher to Superintendant of large school districts in L.A. County. His name is Royce Emerson Lapp. He is a survivor with a ton of energy. All four of his children are very proud of him on many levels.

Here is what we have of the firing mechanism, less the firing pin. Can anyone ID that little steel piece that I included in the photo? We're not sure if it was part of the luger or not but it was in the cigar box. There was a belt buckle in the box too so it could have been part of that.

Can someone also explain the "extractor" the might be missing?

I was able to slide a #2 pencil into the bore quite easily. I calibrated the bore with a simple tool and came up with aprx. 7.49mm. Didn't the factory make the bore change in the year 1900? Maybe this has the larger 7.65mm bore? I don't know.

Can anyone speculate at this guns dollar value for insurance purposes only? Thanks again to all. Your all very nice. Thanks too from my Dad. He appreciates your kind remarks. Later!

Ron Wood · 01-31-2011, 11:49 AM

You can be certain that your Luger is 7.65mm. Here is a photo of the extractor that is missing on your gun.

dukerusty · 01-31-2011, 11:55 AM

Thans Ron,
I guess I can buy one some where, uh?

Ron Wood · 01-31-2011, 12:24 PM

Tom Heller (Lugerdoc) that has already been suggested as a source for a firing pin may have an extractor as well. Originals are difficult to find but there are some excellent reproductions that have been produced that look, fit and function as the originals. You do not want to get a reinforced Swiss extractor that is available however, as it is not proper for your gun.

Gun Parts Sales & Repairs
Tom Heller (Luger Doc)
P O Box 398
St Charles MO 63302
Tel 636-447-3006
Email- hellerarms@webtv.net

MFC · 02-01-2011, 01:32 AM

The little piece of metal looks like the end of the original extractor that broke off. It is the end that is inserted into a hole in the breechblock.

mrerick · 02-01-2011, 09:21 AM

Hi,

You have the spring and the firing pin retainer. The other thing doesn't look like a Luger part. Belt buckle part is likely.

From the photo, it looks like the front "claw" on your extractor was broken off. A front photo of the breech block face will confirm. Also, a picture of the breech block rear can confirm that it isn't damaged.

So, looks like you need a replacement extractor and a replacement firing pin.

A #2 pencil will just fit into my 7.65x21 .30 Luger barrel.

Marc

Ron Wood · 02-01-2011, 09:57 AM

Marc,
The "go", "no-go" test for 7.65mm vs. 9mm is that the eraser end of a standard pencil will not go into a 7.65mm but it will in a 9mm.

dukerusty · 02-01-2011, 10:36 AM

Two things; My Dad remembers the extractor but unfortunately he must of lost it. Second; I think the #2 pencil has some flaws (now) simply because I have one #2 pencil that will slide in the barrel (and eraser) and I have another stamped #2 pencil that won't. Why? The #2 really refers to the lead and pencils are most likely made all over the world where the diameter isn't consestant anymore.
Can anyone tell me how much I should insure it for??
Thanks again.

01-30-2011, 11:17 PM	#21
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,920 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,135 Times in 1,518 Posts	Doug, Congratulations again on a very early Luger. The Crown/B Crown/U Crown/G proof marks were used on the early commercial Lugers. The front dimension of the receiver / breech block and extractor are quite different in the early Lugers. These were revised in the 1900/06 and 1906 specifications. Therefore the firing pin components must be the ones for your specific model. This one should be in the 7.65 x 21 mm Luger Parabellum (.30 Luger) caliber. You should find that a standard No.2 pencil will just fit into the barrel. Here's info on the ammo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.65x21mm_Parabellum This model Luger also used a "S" shaped leaf style rather than coiled recoil spring. If you have not already done, consider carefully removing the grip panels to check the condition of the recoil spring. You have a very early Luger and it is collectible. It would probably be wise to not try and fire it since you could risk breaking parts, especially since there may be corrosion that is not visible. Ask Tom Heller about a firing pin and extractor. Also post on this website in the Wanted section. Collectors would recommend that you not modify the Luger in any way. That said, it may be possible for a restorer to fix some of the corrosion issues if that is important to you. Cheers! Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

01-31-2011, 01:29 AM	#22
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,040 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,257 Times in 1,724 Posts	Doug, That is a VERY early commercial Luger and a real treasure. As the other guys have indicated, there are not many other pieces around that are earlier than that one. Generally it is in very nice condition. It is unfortunate that there are some very pitted areas, but surprisingly few and scattered considering it was rescued from a stream! Evidently it spent considerable time inside a wet holster. The magazine shown is from a later production than the gun indicating that the gun was factory modified to accept this later type magazine. It would be worth a little more if it was unmodified as examples are quite scarce. But, it is a correct, period modification that does not significantly affect the value of the gun. Your father has given you a significant historical gun. The story behind the gun is great and I am very grateful to your father for his service and for still being around to share the experiences. The gun is worthy of a proper restoration. There are only a few craftsmen that are capable of doing it right and it would be a little expensive. So you probably will want to let it alone as it is and enjoy it and its history. If you do decide to restore it, please consult this forum for suggestions. Thank you for sharing. Ron __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

01-31-2011, 11:18 AM	#25
dukerusty User Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: California Posts: 17 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Dads 1900 Thanks for the great info. My Dad is trying to retrace his steps after the Germans ran them out of the "Bulge". As you all well know, our guys came back and kicked their butts! He has maps and some of a journal/diary. The stories this gun could tell, uh?. I will post or somehow send along what ever my Dad can construct. My Dad stayed in the Army Reserve for another 40 years and retired as a full Colonel in the "Civil Affairs" unit out of L.A.. At the same time worked his way up from a school teacher to Superintendant of large school districts in L.A. County. His name is Royce Emerson Lapp. He is a survivor with a ton of energy. All four of his children are very proud of him on many levels. Here is what we have of the firing mechanism, less the firing pin. Can anyone ID that little steel piece that I included in the photo? We're not sure if it was part of the luger or not but it was in the cigar box. There was a belt buckle in the box too so it could have been part of that. Can someone also explain the "extractor" the might be missing? I was able to slide a #2 pencil into the bore quite easily. I calibrated the bore with a simple tool and came up with aprx. 7.49mm. Didn't the factory make the bore change in the year 1900? Maybe this has the larger 7.65mm bore? I don't know. Can anyone speculate at this guns dollar value for insurance purposes only? Thanks again to all. Your all very nice. Thanks too from my Dad. He appreciates your kind remarks. Later! Attached Thumbnails

01-31-2011, 11:49 AM	#26
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,040 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,257 Times in 1,724 Posts	You can be certain that your Luger is 7.65mm. Here is a photo of the extractor that is missing on your gun. Attached Images __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

01-31-2011, 11:55 AM	#27
dukerusty User Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: California Posts: 17 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Extractor Thans Ron, I guess I can buy one some where, uh?

01-31-2011, 01:29 AM	#23
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	Congratulations on a very nice, early Luger! Besides the firing pin, you will also need an extractor, which is either broken or missing on your gun. I can't see clearly enough on your photos.

01-31-2011, 12:24 PM	#28
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,040 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,257 Times in 1,724 Posts	Tom Heller (Lugerdoc) that has already been suggested as a source for a firing pin may have an extractor as well. Originals are difficult to find but there are some excellent reproductions that have been produced that look, fit and function as the originals. You do not want to get a reinforced Swiss extractor that is available however, as it is not proper for your gun. Gun Parts Sales & Repairs Tom Heller (Luger Doc) P O Box 398 St Charles MO 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 Email- hellerarms@webtv.net __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

02-01-2011, 01:32 AM	#29
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	The little piece of metal looks like the end of the original extractor that broke off. It is the end that is inserted into a hole in the breechblock. __________________ Mike C.

02-01-2011, 09:21 AM	#30
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,920 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,135 Times in 1,518 Posts	Hi, You have the spring and the firing pin retainer. The other thing doesn't look like a Luger part. Belt buckle part is likely. From the photo, it looks like the front "claw" on your extractor was broken off. A front photo of the breech block face will confirm. Also, a picture of the breech block rear can confirm that it isn't damaged. So, looks like you need a replacement extractor and a replacement firing pin. A #2 pencil will just fit into my 7.65x21 .30 Luger barrel. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

02-01-2011, 09:57 AM	#31
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,040 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,257 Times in 1,724 Posts	Marc, The "go", "no-go" test for 7.65mm vs. 9mm is that the eraser end of a standard pencil will not go into a 7.65mm but it will in a 9mm. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

02-01-2011, 10:36 AM	#32
dukerusty User Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: California Posts: 17 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	1900 luger Two things; My Dad remembers the extractor but unfortunately he must of lost it. Second; I think the #2 pencil has some flaws (now) simply because I have one #2 pencil that will slide in the barrel (and eraser) and I have another stamped #2 pencil that won't. Why? The #2 really refers to the lead and pencils are most likely made all over the world where the diameter isn't consestant anymore. Can anyone tell me how much I should insure it for?? Thanks again.