First luger - won't work - need help!

[esbshaw]

I am a new member on the LugerForum, and also a new luger owner. It is a totally refinished 1921 piece (new barrel, new grips, re-blued, re-strawed, etc.) that appears to have one or more problems. I bought it as a consignment piece in a gunshop, so the gunshop owner had never fired it & didn't know a whole lot of background on it. I paid $800. The refinish looks very nicely done, and all the numbers match, although I have no idea if they're all original or if some parts were re-numbered during the refurb.

The first thing that I noticed was that when I put a pencil down the barrel, pointed it towards the ceiling, and pulled the trigger, the pencil did not jump out of the barrel. In fact it only moves about 1/4 of an inch.

I took the pistol out the other day, loaded it, pulled the trigger. Nothing. No audible "click"; nothing. I pulled the trigger about ten times, and it fired on the tenth pull. The empty case ejected fine but the pistol "jammed" and didn't feed the next round. The recovered case had a very nice and acceptable primer strike. After clearing the jam and chambering a fresh round, I again had to pull the trigger about a dozen times before the piece would fire. At this point I gave up and came home.

I disassembled the pistol, thinking that maybe it had not been assembled correctly, or a very obvious defect or broken part would appear. Everything looked undamaged and assembled correctly. However, I did notice a couple of troubling things. First, I have watched the LugerForum youtube videos. They indicate that when disassembling, the large cross-pin at the rear of the toggle should pretty much just fall out freely, and slip right back in when assembling. My cross-pin (correctly numbered, by the way) was tight and had to be tapped out. When assembling, it would go through the left side of the barrel extention and the toggle quite easily, bit would "hang up" and not go through the right side of the extention unless I wiggled the extention while tapping the pin. Second, the breechblock does not slide easily in and out of the extention. It is stiff and tight and hard to get back in when reassembling.

Unfortunately, I think that these two things (and probably other clues that I'm missing) mean that the barrel extention was been "tweeked" and the rails are not parrallel to each other any more, right? And that this condition is somehow contributing to the lack of proper trigger function?

Is there any hope for this piece? I hate to give up on it, but I can't sink unlimited amounts of money into this project. I paid $800 for it, and I thought while although not a screaming bargain was at least a halfway decent price for a very nicely refurbed shooter that was somewhat uncommon (1921 date with the dove-dove-buzzard marks on the right side) and that had a new barrel and perfect bore. At this point I don't think that it is within the scope of my expertise to get it running right. Can anyone suggest a competent 'smith that might be able to do something with this beast? What would one expect to pay for someone to straighten the frame, assuming that's actually the problem. Does Tom, who posts here as LugerDoc, accept this kind of work from fellow board members? Thanks in advance for any and all advice and suggestions.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by esbshaw

Unfortunately, I think that these two things (and probably other clues that I'm missing) mean that the barrel extention was been "tweeked" and the rails are not parrallel to each other any more, right?

If the barrel was removed/installed without the proper tools, it could very well have 'tweeked' the receiver. Been there, done that.

Very time consuming process to correct. At least it was for me. Not something I'd want to do again.

[rivieraranch]

I doubt you are in as bad shape as you fear.

You might need a new magazine which should take care of feeding problems. You definitely have to tweak the side plate and trigger parts some. The trigger should work on the first pull

The toggle pin should not fall out freely. It should be a little snug. This is not a problem. The breechblock being tight is not bad. If there were something wrong with it the gun wouldn't cycle. The parts on your gun fitting together snug contributes to accuracy.

You should indicate where you are located and somebody can help you.

I am by no means an expert, but believe that your problem can be taken care of easily.

[nukem556]

You say after pulling the trigger a dozen times or so it fires....this shows the firing pin is catching the sear bar, so the problem is most likely in the sideplate/trigger lever assembly, but checx the simplest things first. Make sure the spring loaded pin at the end of the sear bar is moving in and out freely. Make sure the trigger lever pin is secure in the sideplate. If so....with the gun cocked and unloaded, pull the trigger while watching and feeling the sideplate for motion...if it pushes away from the gun, there is too much play between the tang on the sideplate and the takedown lever. This can be remedied by gently bending the tang to provide a resistance fit when the takedown lever is closed. If this isn't the problem, it could be that the "L" shape of the trigger lever isnt at an acute enough angle to provide enough motion when the trigger is pulled to fully press on the sear bar pin. This is a touchier fix...it's hard metal and can snap if you attempt to bend it. I have had success doing it though by heating in a vise it to a dull red with a propane torch and tapping gently with a brass mallet to increase the angle...doesn't take much.

[Lugerdoc]

The above advise re the trigger pull offers a few fixes that you can try, but your "tweeked" reciever may be causing too much friction on the breech block and frame to allow this luger to cycle correctly. TH

[DavidJayUden]

A difficult problem without seeing it, hands on.
When you release the toggle from the raised position does it snap forward and close or does it drag/stay partially open?
Also when the trigger does release the striker, does it make a difference on which edge of the trigger you were pressing, ie right edge, left edge, top or bottom tip?
dju

[JRS]

Maybe try a cheap fix by shimming the trigger lever in the side plate where the lever enters the trigger slot and then liberally lube the breach block rails. Cartridge recoil should loosen things up a bit.

[JRS]

And one other thing: don't be concerned that the old pencil in the barrel test did not produce the result you expected. That works in a Model 1911A1 style pistol where the firing pin has unrestricted travel, but it won't work in a Luger where the striker and the breech block only let the pin protrude just enough to ignite the primer; not far enough to propel the pencil.

[esbshaw]

I really appreciate all of the assistance. I can find online troubleshooting information and suggestions, schematics, you name it, down to the most minute detail, for a Garand. Or a 1911. But I'm having trouble locating the same depth of information for troubleshooting a luger!
Per nukem556's suggestion: Yes, the sideplate DOES indeed push away from the gun when the trigger is pulled. It opens a gap that I can easily stick a business card into. This sideplate movement seems to happen weather the pistol is cocked or not. Should the sideplate remain totally stationary while the trigger is being pulled? For what it's worth, I noticed that the trigger is a different number than all of the other marked parts.
Which direction should the sideplate tang be bent to provide the additional resistance, outwards (i.e. to the left) or inwards (to the right)?
Per DavidJayUden's questions: When I release the toggle from its upright position, it snaps all the way forward very smartly, and locks. Doesn't seem to make any difference which area of the trigger is pressed.
I am located in Boise, Idaho; if anyone could suggest a good luger 'smith located in the West. Thanks again.

[alanint]

Sounds like you have a worn takedown lever or sideplate that has been messed with. There should be NO movement of the sideplate away from the gun's receiver upon trigger pull or at any time for that matter.

Do not attempt to bend the "L" shaped trigger lever without first getting advice here! It is heat treated, brittle metal and will most likely snap if you try to bend it.

[John Sabato]

You can SLIGHTLY bend the tab on the sideplate that fits under the takedown lever outwards toward the takedown lever, not toward the receiver...to eliminate any play when installed... be careful...it takes very little bending... you may even find that the tab is not in the right position because some previous owner tried to improperly takedown the Luger by prying but creating some tension on this tab to the takedown lever can eliminate the movement of the sideplate when you pull the trigger.

[DavidJayUden]

And when all else fails pack it up and send it to our Luger Doc. Probably save yourself a lot of grief by just doing that now...
dju