Here is a Question

newluger · 12-24-2010, 02:13 PM

Joe buys a gun from Tom. The gun has a three day inspection period. To me that means that Joe can return the gun to Tom within 3 days, if its not what was advertised or is unsatisfactory.

Now here is my question. Joe does buy a gun from Tom. Joe provides Tom with the name and address of his FFL. Tom sends the gun to Joe's FFL. Joe picks up the gun from his FFL and pays his FFL the cost involved, which is around $30 to $50 here in Tennessee. Before Joe can take possession of the gun, he has to have it registered and whatever else is required by his FFL.

Joe takes his newly purchased and registered gun home, and after looking it over, finds that the gun is not what he expected, and decides to return it to Tom.

What happens now? The gun has been registered in Joe's name and the FBI check made. How does Joe return the gun to Tom?

Hugo Borchardt · 12-24-2010, 02:53 PM

Hi, NewLuger. I live here in TN as well and typically receive guns for my collection with my C&R (FFL03) license, and don't have to pay an FFL fee. That way I can return them within the 3 day inspection period and undergo no transfer and fees.

When I buy a non-C&R gun, I perform my inspection at my preferred FFL holder's premises (in my case a gun shop). If I am unsatisfied, I return the gun and undergo no transfer or fees other than perhaps return shipping. I would not have a gun transferred to me without completing my inspection. If I overlooked something and the gun was transferred, I would have to arrange to return the gun to the user's FFL for re-transfer unless there is a provision I am unaware of.

When I occasionally sell a gun to a non-FFL or non-C&R holder, I recommend that they do the same. If they do not, they would have to return a C&R gun directly to me, or I guess I would have to pay to have the non-C&R gun re-transferred to me unless there is a provision I do not know about.

Clark

sheepherder · 12-24-2010, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clark Rickman

When I buy a ... gun, I perform my inspection at my preferred FFL holder's premises (in my case a gun shop).

+ 1

My FFL receiver/gunshop has dealt with me for years; he is aware that there have been some shady characters on the various gun auction sites, and checking it over for validity of description is taken for granted before starting the permit process.

In my county in NYS, you must first pay for the pistol [if bought locally] & get a receipt ; then take it to the local Pistol Permit Office and register it (within 10 days of the receipt) and get a 'purchase coupon'; then return to the FFL receiver/gunshop with the coupon and go through the NICS & finally take delivery.

PITA...and pretty much shuts down gun show purchases...

DavidJayUden · 12-24-2010, 06:27 PM

Beats me how to undo the paperwork, fee nightmare that has been created in order to return an unsatisfactory purchase. I guess it comes down to how bad the deal is. Can you hold your nose and live with it or does it smell so bad that you must return it? No undoing the registrations and I doubt that any fees are refundable. Best to take your big glasses with you into the FFL dealer and determine then and there if it is worth the hassles that are to follow.
dju

JRS · 12-24-2010, 08:21 PM

My FFL dealer always unpacks the gun to get the serial number and other details to complete the upcoming paper work before I get there. He doesn't have to do it, but he generally tells me what he thinks of the gun and whether he sees anything wrong with it I have been burned before, dealing with people I do not know. For that reason. I only deal with reputable dealers even if I have to pay premium prices.

Edward Tinker · 12-24-2010, 09:16 PM

Unless you live in a state that requires truely being registered, which the only state I lived in was Hawaii (PA, CO, WA, MT, LA, all did not 'register the gun to the state); 'undoing' the paperwork is simply putting it in the book and then stating in your FFL book that it was sent back to the original seller....

If you sell to a person and you don't have an FFL, but sent it to them and they have an FFL, you can legally receive the gun back, without going through an FFL, you can find this in the ATF book.

Ed

MFC · 12-24-2010, 10:37 PM

I agree with Ed. Most states only require a transfer through an FFL to you. The gun is not registered in your name, only that it was legally transfered to you after a background check. There is no registration to undo or reverse.

Aaron · 12-25-2010, 12:01 AM

When a gun is received by your FFL transfer dealer, the proper procedure is to unpack it in his presence. If any damage or unexpected conditions are revealed, the dealer can be your indisputable witness that the damage existed when the gun was received. The seller then cannot accuse the buyer of causing the damage. A thorough inspection must be made at the dealers premises, and the decision to keep it or return it must be made at that time. No taking it home and poring over it there.

Curly1 · 12-25-2010, 09:57 AM

I do the inspection at the dealers and open the box in his presence also.

Lugerdoc · 12-27-2010, 10:25 AM

I agree with Aaron. When I worked in a gun shop in Calif, the standard practice was for the intended purchaser to completely inspect the firearm before any paper work was begun. If the FA was not acceptable, we would rebox it and return it to the shipper, before it left the shop. TH

jonnyc · 12-27-2010, 12:41 PM

I agree. Once the transfer is made and the gun goes home, you own it. If the seller is a saint and agrees to take it back, any and all return and transfer charge would be on you, but I would say he is under no obligation to take the gun back.

12-24-2010, 02:13 PM	#1
newluger User Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Franklin Tennessee Posts: 119 Thanks: 22 Thanked 10 Times in 7 Posts	Here is a Question Joe buys a gun from Tom. The gun has a three day inspection period. To me that means that Joe can return the gun to Tom within 3 days, if its not what was advertised or is unsatisfactory. Now here is my question. Joe does buy a gun from Tom. Joe provides Tom with the name and address of his FFL. Tom sends the gun to Joe's FFL. Joe picks up the gun from his FFL and pays his FFL the cost involved, which is around $30 to $50 here in Tennessee. Before Joe can take possession of the gun, he has to have it registered and whatever else is required by his FFL. Joe takes his newly purchased and registered gun home, and after looking it over, finds that the gun is not what he expected, and decides to return it to Tom. What happens now? The gun has been registered in Joe's name and the FBI check made. How does Joe return the gun to Tom?

12-24-2010, 02:53 PM	#2
Hugo Borchardt User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Tennessee Posts: 372 Thanks: 340 Thanked 143 Times in 48 Posts	Hi, NewLuger. I live here in TN as well and typically receive guns for my collection with my C&R (FFL03) license, and don't have to pay an FFL fee. That way I can return them within the 3 day inspection period and undergo no transfer and fees. When I buy a non-C&R gun, I perform my inspection at my preferred FFL holder's premises (in my case a gun shop). If I am unsatisfied, I return the gun and undergo no transfer or fees other than perhaps return shipping. I would not have a gun transferred to me without completing my inspection. If I overlooked something and the gun was transferred, I would have to arrange to return the gun to the user's FFL for re-transfer unless there is a provision I am unaware of. When I occasionally sell a gun to a non-FFL or non-C&R holder, I recommend that they do the same. If they do not, they would have to return a C&R gun directly to me, or I guess I would have to pay to have the non-C&R gun re-transferred to me unless there is a provision I do not know about. Clark __________________ My militaria collection is dedicated to the memory of my Grandfather, Marine Gunnery Sergeant Dave Hill, Jr., wounded in action at The Assault of the Second Marine Division on Betio Island, Tarawa Atoll, 20-23 November, 1943. http://www.tarawa1943.com/pages/casualties%20tarawa.htm

12-24-2010, 09:16 PM	#6
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,962 Thanks: 2,063 Thanked 4,592 Times in 2,114 Posts	Unless you live in a state that requires truely being registered, which the only state I lived in was Hawaii (PA, CO, WA, MT, LA, all did not 'register the gun to the state); 'undoing' the paperwork is simply putting it in the book and then stating in your FFL book that it was sent back to the original seller.... If you sell to a person and you don't have an FFL, but sent it to them and they have an FFL, you can legally receive the gun back, without going through an FFL, you can find this in the ATF book. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

12-24-2010, 10:37 PM	#7
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	I agree with Ed. Most states only require a transfer through an FFL to you. The gun is not registered in your name, only that it was legally transfered to you after a background check. There is no registration to undo or reverse. __________________ Mike C.

12-25-2010, 09:57 AM	#9
Curly1 User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Upstate New York Posts: 1,244 Thanks: 125 Thanked 715 Times in 372 Posts	I do the inspection at the dealers and open the box in his presence also. __________________ Laugh hard and often. Gary

12-24-2010, 06:27 PM	#4
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Beats me how to undo the paperwork, fee nightmare that has been created in order to return an unsatisfactory purchase. I guess it comes down to how bad the deal is. Can you hold your nose and live with it or does it smell so bad that you must return it? No undoing the registrations and I doubt that any fees are refundable. Best to take your big glasses with you into the FFL dealer and determine then and there if it is worth the hassles that are to follow. dju

12-24-2010, 08:21 PM	#5
JRS User Join Date: May 2010 Location: Virginia Beach, VA 23452 Posts: 81 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	My FFL dealer always unpacks the gun to get the serial number and other details to complete the upcoming paper work before I get there. He doesn't have to do it, but he generally tells me what he thinks of the gun and whether he sees anything wrong with it I have been burned before, dealing with people I do not know. For that reason. I only deal with reputable dealers even if I have to pay premium prices.

12-25-2010, 12:01 AM	#8
Aaron Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vista, CA Posts: 1,008 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	When a gun is received by your FFL transfer dealer, the proper procedure is to unpack it in his presence. If any damage or unexpected conditions are revealed, the dealer can be your indisputable witness that the damage existed when the gun was received. The seller then cannot accuse the buyer of causing the damage. A thorough inspection must be made at the dealers premises, and the decision to keep it or return it must be made at that time. No taking it home and poring over it there.

12-27-2010, 10:25 AM	#10
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	I agree with Aaron. When I worked in a gun shop in Calif, the standard practice was for the intended purchaser to completely inspect the firearm before any paper work was begun. If the FA was not acceptable, we would rebox it and return it to the shipper, before it left the shop. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

12-27-2010, 12:41 PM	#11
jonnyc User Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 425 Thanks: 2 Thanked 46 Times in 34 Posts	I agree. Once the transfer is made and the gun goes home, you own it. If the seller is a saint and agrees to take it back, any and all return and transfer charge would be on you, but I would say he is under no obligation to take the gun back.