1916 DWM valuation

Anopsis · 11-23-2010, 08:17 PM

Hello everyone,
I really hate to be the guy that posts on a forum for the first time with a "what's it worth" question, but I don't know where to go.
A friend has asked me to help him sell a Luger but I know nothing about them. I filled out the ident sheets and here's what I have so far:

Toggle Inscription: DWM
Chamber Inscription: 1916
Toggle Type: Squared and knurled
Grip Safety: Not Present
Stock Lug: Present
Caliber: 9mm
Grip Type: Checkered brown (material unknown), no insignia
Thumb Safety: Safe in rear position, GESICHERT visible when safe
Marks: Crown, Crown over M, Crown over M
All small parts & barrel marked "59". Rear toggle link stamped with 59 on rear, stamped 100 on top.
Witness marks are aligned and barrel is stamped with crown over M as well
Front sight stamped 1916
Extractor marked GELADEN
Barrel length: 5"
Magazine: wood bottom, appears to be marked 969 with "a" suffix.

Other items to note is that the grip screw on the left side is missing, and the wood base of the magazine has a chunk missing. It must have happened a long time ago since the break is smooth and worn.

Hope you guys can help!

Thanks,
Chad

Norme · 11-23-2010, 08:54 PM

Hi Chad, Welcome aboard. Your friends Luger is a highly desirable Imperial Navy. It appears to be authentic but, has been refinshed. That, unfortunately, will seriously effect it's value to a collector. I would be very grateful if your friend would share the serial number with me as I am compiling a Navy data base. Thanks, Norm

Anopsis · 11-23-2010, 09:19 PM

Thanks for the welcome and the info. It's currently in my possession, so where should the serial number be? I didn't see it anywhere on the exterior and I haven't removed the grips. Also, can you tell me the cues to identify the refinishing?

Thanks for your help!

Norme · 11-23-2010, 09:41 PM

Hi Chad, The full serial number will be on the front of the frame and also on the bottom of the barrel (see photo). Your gun appears to have been buffed prior to rebluing, and this is particularly evident on the side plate. Also, the barrel serial number on an unrefinished gun will display a halo effect, as seen in the photo. Regards, Norm

Anopsis · 11-23-2010, 10:06 PM

Hmm, very interesting and confusing at the same time. The bottom of the barrel has ONLY the last two digits (59) and the crown over M proof. The front of the frame shows the same 59 stamp.

Norme · 11-23-2010, 10:20 PM

Hi Chad, The serial could certainly be 59. 1916 Navy serial numbers went from 1 to 8000. Could you possibly post photos of the numbers? Thanks, Norm

Anopsis · 11-23-2010, 10:32 PM

IMG_0096 by 1911dude, on Flickr

IMG_0098 by 1911dude, on Flickr

Norme · 11-23-2010, 10:40 PM

Thanks, Chad, its certainly #59. And, as you can see in the barrel photo, no halos. Regards

Anopsis · 11-23-2010, 10:46 PM

Thanks so much for the help. I hope it helps fill in your records as well. Any recommendations on where I should look to try selling it?

Norme · 11-23-2010, 11:22 PM

Hi Chad, You could post the gun in the classified section of this forum, or you could try your luck auctioning it on Gunboards. It's hard to put a price on a refinished gun, my guess is about half of an original piece, say $2,500.00. Does anyone else have an opinion? Regards Norm.

abukafura · 11-24-2010, 09:57 AM

Really neat 2-digit serial number. Norme, it apears that this is the second lowest serial in your data base, correct?

Norme · 11-24-2010, 10:15 AM

Your right, Herman, #44 is the lowest so far. I also have #79, a known fake. Regards, Norm

lugerholsterrepair · 11-24-2010, 12:10 PM

Chad, As norm says it's been molested at the hands of a refinisher. This pistol in it's original state would be highly collectable and bring big bucks. As it is... it becomes a shooter and very low end collectable. Good for the Luger guy who wants to experience shooting a Navy. As such..it's an expensive pistol to shoot. A regular Army reblued shooter would run in the $600-800 range. In this poor economy I think Norm's $2500 estimate is pretty much top of the market with the mag the way it is and the missing screw etc.
How to sell it? I would place it on the for sale section here with a $2500 price tag and see if anyone is interested. The ad is free.
Thanks for sharing and welcome to the Luger Forum!
Jerry Burney

DavidJayUden · 11-24-2010, 01:45 PM

I'd consider whether this one is a good candidate for a "real" restoration. There is a bit of buffing damage, but not much. Might want to consult Thor on this one.
Seems a shame to label it a shooter and walk away on it.
dju

Anopsis · 11-30-2010, 07:11 PM

Thanks for the input guys. I'll get it posted in the proper section for sale.

Thanks!

Edward Tinker · 12-01-2010, 12:35 AM

yes, my thought is closer to the $2k marking as a for sale, a proper era magazine is about $150-$200, double that for a navy magazine (or a bit more) and a screw is $10-$20

Ed

Thor · 12-01-2010, 09:36 AM

Looks like high polish salt bluing, not rust bluing as it should be. Strawed parts appear in the white and highly polished.

Ron Wood · 12-01-2010, 10:49 AM

That is a nice low serial number gun that hasn't been totally ruined. It deserves to be brought back to life by Ted.

11-23-2010, 08:17 PM	#1
Anopsis User Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kentucky, USA Posts: 8 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	1916 DWM valuation Hello everyone, I really hate to be the guy that posts on a forum for the first time with a "what's it worth" question, but I don't know where to go. A friend has asked me to help him sell a Luger but I know nothing about them. I filled out the ident sheets and here's what I have so far: Toggle Inscription: DWM Chamber Inscription: 1916 Toggle Type: Squared and knurled Grip Safety: Not Present Stock Lug: Present Caliber: 9mm Grip Type: Checkered brown (material unknown), no insignia Thumb Safety: Safe in rear position, GESICHERT visible when safe Marks: Crown, Crown over M, Crown over M All small parts & barrel marked "59". Rear toggle link stamped with 59 on rear, stamped 100 on top. Witness marks are aligned and barrel is stamped with crown over M as well Front sight stamped 1916 Extractor marked GELADEN Barrel length: 5" Magazine: wood bottom, appears to be marked 969 with "a" suffix. Other items to note is that the grip screw on the left side is missing, and the wood base of the magazine has a chunk missing. It must have happened a long time ago since the break is smooth and worn. Hope you guys can help! Thanks, Chad

11-23-2010, 10:46 PM	#9
Anopsis User Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kentucky, USA Posts: 8 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks so much for the help. I hope it helps fill in your records as well. Any recommendations on where I should look to try selling it? __________________ Chad D. Cassetty KY Concealed Carry Instructor, NRA Endowment Member NROI Level I Range Officer / USPSA +++

11-24-2010, 12:10 PM	#13
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,774 Thanks: 4,953 Thanked 3,126 Times in 1,435 Posts	Chad, As norm says it's been molested at the hands of a refinisher. This pistol in it's original state would be highly collectable and bring big bucks. As it is... it becomes a shooter and very low end collectable. Good for the Luger guy who wants to experience shooting a Navy. As such..it's an expensive pistol to shoot. A regular Army reblued shooter would run in the $600-800 range. In this poor economy I think Norm's $2500 estimate is pretty much top of the market with the mag the way it is and the missing screw etc. How to sell it? I would place it on the for sale section here with a $2500 price tag and see if anyone is interested. The ad is free. Thanks for sharing and welcome to the Luger Forum! Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

11-30-2010, 07:11 PM	#15
Anopsis User Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kentucky, USA Posts: 8 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for the input guys. I'll get it posted in the proper section for sale. Thanks! __________________ Chad D. Cassetty KY Concealed Carry Instructor, NRA Endowment Member NROI Level I Range Officer / USPSA +++

12-01-2010, 12:35 AM	#16
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,941 Thanks: 2,039 Thanked 4,547 Times in 2,100 Posts	yes, my thought is closer to the $2k marking as a for sale, a proper era magazine is about $150-$200, double that for a navy magazine (or a bit more) and a screw is $10-$20 Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

11-23-2010, 08:54 PM	#2
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,605 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Chad, Welcome aboard. Your friends Luger is a highly desirable Imperial Navy. It appears to be authentic but, has been refinshed. That, unfortunately, will seriously effect it's value to a collector. I would be very grateful if your friend would share the serial number with me as I am compiling a Navy data base. Thanks, Norm

11-23-2010, 09:19 PM	#3
Anopsis User Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kentucky, USA Posts: 8 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for the welcome and the info. It's currently in my possession, so where should the serial number be? I didn't see it anywhere on the exterior and I haven't removed the grips. Also, can you tell me the cues to identify the refinishing? Thanks for your help!

11-23-2010, 09:41 PM	#4
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,605 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Chad, The full serial number will be on the front of the frame and also on the bottom of the barrel (see photo). Your gun appears to have been buffed prior to rebluing, and this is particularly evident on the side plate. Also, the barrel serial number on an unrefinished gun will display a halo effect, as seen in the photo. Regards, Norm Attached Thumbnails

11-23-2010, 10:06 PM	#5
Anopsis User Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kentucky, USA Posts: 8 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hmm, very interesting and confusing at the same time. The bottom of the barrel has ONLY the last two digits (59) and the crown over M proof. The front of the frame shows the same 59 stamp. __________________ Chad D. Cassetty KY Concealed Carry Instructor, NRA Endowment Member NROI Level I Range Officer / USPSA +++ Last edited by Anopsis; 11-23-2010 at 10:12 PM. Reason: typo

11-23-2010, 10:20 PM	#6
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,605 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Chad, The serial could certainly be 59. 1916 Navy serial numbers went from 1 to 8000. Could you possibly post photos of the numbers? Thanks, Norm

11-23-2010, 10:32 PM	#7
Anopsis User Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kentucky, USA Posts: 8 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	IMG_0096 by 1911dude, on Flickr IMG_0098 by 1911dude, on Flickr __________________ Chad D. Cassetty KY Concealed Carry Instructor, NRA Endowment Member NROI Level I Range Officer / USPSA +++

11-23-2010, 10:40 PM	#8
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,605 Times in 933 Posts	Thanks, Chad, its certainly #59. And, as you can see in the barrel photo, no halos. Regards

11-23-2010, 11:22 PM	#10
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,605 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Chad, You could post the gun in the classified section of this forum, or you could try your luck auctioning it on Gunboards. It's hard to put a price on a refinished gun, my guess is about half of an original piece, say $2,500.00. Does anyone else have an opinion? Regards Norm.

11-24-2010, 09:57 AM	#11
abukafura Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Northeast Wisconsin, near Greeen Bay Posts: 327 Thanks: 1,314 Thanked 90 Times in 57 Posts	Really neat 2-digit serial number. Norme, it apears that this is the second lowest serial in your data base, correct?

11-24-2010, 10:15 AM	#12
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,605 Times in 933 Posts	Your right, Herman, #44 is the lowest so far. I also have #79, a known fake. Regards, Norm

11-24-2010, 01:45 PM	#14
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	I'd consider whether this one is a good candidate for a "real" restoration. There is a bit of buffing damage, but not much. Might want to consult Thor on this one. Seems a shame to label it a shooter and walk away on it. dju

12-01-2010, 09:36 AM	#17
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Looks like high polish salt bluing, not rust bluing as it should be. Strawed parts appear in the white and highly polished. __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

12-01-2010, 10:49 AM	#18
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,091 Thanked 5,180 Times in 1,703 Posts	That is a nice low serial number gun that hasn't been totally ruined. It deserves to be brought back to life by Ted. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction