Small Parts - Do They Really Match ?

Is it possible for a Luger that is advertised to have all matching parts be a hybrid of different small parts from different guns which coincidentally had the same small parts numbers ?


For example if a Luger (s/n 4790) was missing only one small part with number 90, what prevents the Luger from being fitted with another small part from another "junk" gun that, let's say is s/n 8690 or a small part found in a parts bin at gun shows ?


I assume the importance for all matching nubmers is a confidence that all parts belong to the same gun at time of manufacutere and were hand-fitted for best shooting performance.


Pete...

[Thor]

Pete, I think this happens all the time! Lots of old Lugers are "forced matched". And it is evident from looking at the parts on some guns that they dont really match as the fonts were not matching, not well done consistently. ~Thor~

Yes...all matching numbers does not always mean all is original and correct!


I recently examined a 1937 date all matching byf luger...Now, if you believe that, you will believe in the tooth fairy and Santa!


Just go to a gunshow...or ask Tom H or John Raum or others who sell parts...how often are people looking for a certain numbered sideplate...or toggle? It happens all the time! mags are matched up that are not right...just the numbers match.


The Shadow Knows!

Pete, There is really nothing to prevent what you suggest, but have you ever found the numbered PO8 parts that you needed at a show, let along marked with the correct matching die set and proof (for Erfurt, KH & Simson)?

[Aaron]

I have long expressed the opinion that substituting parts with falsely matched numbers is unethical and an affront to the serious collector. The primary purpose of this practice is to defraud future purchasers by inflating the value of the firearm. For this reason I believe that the classified section of this forum should not accept ads for parts with particular numbers. While I know this will not end this deceptive practice, it will at least set a moral example for many Luger collectors.

Aaron, I can see your point and understand it. I do wonder how many parts were swapped out over the years at arms rooms, arsenals, studys, etc.


I know most people won't agree with me on this, but what is the difference in a factory rework of a model 1914 Erfurt in 1934? 20 years afterwards, the same workers didn't do the rework and now compare that to a VOPO or Russian rework. Or even worse, a rework by a highly trained gunsmith in the US?


I understand the difference, but in a rework, they might swap out five different parts of a gun and renumbered them.


My 1940 mauser is considered a "parts gun", as far as I can tell, it has an upper receiver of all one numbers and a lower receiver of all the same numbers. I'd say either it was done on purpose, or since the blueing is all of the same vintage, I'd say some guy put together two of the wrong weapons.


Now, your point it that I have a mismatched part, buy one that is matching and then sell it for a 85% blued collector and not a shooter. Yes I have to agree with you that is morally wrong.


But instead I tell you I did this sell it as a shooter, then that seller, sells it / dies off / trades it, etc., and two sales later, the guy that now has it sells it as a 85% blued collector, because that is what he sees?


I am sure there are many collector guns out there that get sold that way. I also know that many American guns get sold that way and nobody thinks any less of it. Many American gun collectors feel that as long as it is of a comparable age, why does it matter? That is my understanidng with many Winchesters, Colts, etc.


Ed

[Kyrie]

I concur.


Best regards,


Kyrie