Whats it worth? My 1st Luger (rig) purchase - Page 4

Mauser George · 07-06-2010, 05:40 PM

Sieger:

Say what you please, but the facts speak for themselves. I truly appreciate you being so civilized when dealing with me!

Why don’t we just stick with the topic at hand which is Jason 1941 Luger. It’s ok to disagree, however his Luger, including the grips in my option are right as rain!

George

wlyon · 07-06-2010, 06:42 PM

Jason
Nice looking luger. My estimate would be closer to 95%. As for value, if the mags are original around $3000 to $3500. The holster $250 to 300. Difficult to appraise from pictures. Bill

tharpo · 07-06-2010, 10:50 PM

In regards to the grips. I have a 1941 byf with a "p" suffix which puts its production just before Jason's luger with a "Q" suffix. My left grip is different in that it is numbered to the gun but both are marked with an E/655 and a "D" stamp(workers mark?). This leads me to believe that his grips are original to the period but I would have of way of knowing if his left the Mauser factory on his gun.

LugerVern · 07-06-2010, 11:16 PM

It's a good thing this is the "New Collector" section.

I am done with this post

DavidJayUden · 07-06-2010, 11:22 PM

LugerVern:
Why is that ?
dju

Sieger · 07-06-2010, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LugerVern

It's a good thing this is the "New Collector" section.

I am done with this post

Dear LugerVern:

Amen brother, amen!!!

Sieger

Jason L · 07-07-2010, 12:12 AM

Hey Gents,
Honestly I go back and forth on this one. There are a few things that bother me.......
1. GESICHERT is too white, all my guns are yellowed
2. There appears to be no typical holster wear on the end of the barrel.
Overall I think it is Ok but the pictures are not good enough to determine the originality. A hands on inspection among other examples would be best IMHO. Here are a couple byf 41's from my collection for comparison.
Cheers,
A different Jason

tau-delt · 07-07-2010, 10:48 AM

Jason.... Good looking pair. Could not make out the SN so I need to ask if these are part of the Black Grip Study I have going on over on the other luger forum ???

bijj62 · 07-08-2010, 07:04 PM

I just got back from a gun shop about 50 miles away from where I live, I had a gentleman look my Luger over real good. Why didn't anybody tell me this was considerd a "Black Widow"?? I guess maybe I shouldve known...He took a magnifying glass to it and it was his opinion that it had never been refinshed, it had correct grips, and that the holster was original in 85%+. He pulled both grips and opened the chamber took his glass looked it all over, looked up at me with a grin and said "I bet this thing hasn't had 50 rounds thru it".

bijj62 · 07-08-2010, 09:26 PM

Scratch that "black widow" remark. I spoke with him again and he says alot of people call the Lugers with the blued trigger etc "black widows" Ive seen that term quite a bit in my recent attempt on researching Lugers, does it just have to do with the plastic grips I'm assuming?

Norme · 07-08-2010, 09:39 PM

Hi Jason, "Black Widow" is a term that was coined a few years ago to describe the 20% or so, of the 1941 and 1942 byf Lugers that were issued with black bakelite grips. This label has caught the popular imagination and these guns are now worth a little more than those with wood grips. Regards, Norm

Ardennes · 07-08-2010, 10:56 PM

Photos have limitations as do the human eyes. That being said I think we are looking at what comes close to a mint byf 41 rig. They do exist. That does not scare me at all. The gentleman has the piece and it must be considered original. A rework? One must always consider the possibility, but an absolutely perfect fake (if such a thing exists) would have to considered original until shown to be otherwise. If excellent pieces are considered too good looking to be original ... where does that leave us?? From what I can see, $3000.00 easy for this rig up to perhaps $4500.00 tops. Just my opinion.

tau-delt · 07-09-2010, 09:42 AM

If you look at the post that Jason L made on 7/7 (post #67) above in this thread you will see a nice pair of so called Black Widows. Note the black grips and the black plastic mag bottoms.

FNorm · 07-09-2010, 10:33 AM

Jason,

Just for comparison take a look at my posting. Under military lugers, 'Pair of 41s'. About page 2-3. One black widow, one.... Brown Recluse? LOL

FN

Neil Young · 07-09-2010, 11:36 AM

"Brown Recluse"--I like that. I think you just coined another name for a specific type of Luger. My byf 42 is a Brown Recluse from this day forward.

Thanks.

Neil

FNorm · 07-09-2010, 02:34 PM

ROTF!!!! I'm famous!!! Infamous???!?!?

FN

caflashbob · 10-11-2010, 02:34 AM

Sorry to bring up an old post. Especially in the mixed light the Luger was received in. I too am a first time owner with the identical gun. My condition is close with some barrel holster wear and the side plate finish worn also.

The difference I noticed as well as could be seen is that mine has no sanding marks on the flat surfaces and every machined edge is completely sharp.

Like I said I am sorry to bring this up again but the education I got here was really interesting to me.

No mags that match with mine but everything else is correct. Minor pitting as I stated minor holster wear but at least 90% finish on the gun.

You will probably tell me I am dumb but I have fired the gun quite a bit when I got it from the bring back ww11 guy twenty years ago who never fired it since he traded an officer for in in Germany in 1945.

What a fantastic shooting weapon.

My grips fully wrap around and are airtight under the safety lever and have the matching 655 stamp and D stamp and a large V and the matching numbers. And a internal small crack starting on the surface of the inside of the right grip. Wood grain looks different than the op's but wood is wood.

Interesting that I have a somewhat comparable gun to look at reading this thread.

Yellowing paint half missing on the safety levers warning printing.

Bob

ratdog · 11-11-2010, 02:41 PM

Just looking at the pics of the two grips side by side, you can clearly see they are not the same. Raised areas are different, as are the lips on the edges of these raised areas. WaA looks sharp wing edges on the op grips. Was the grip manufacture something that had a lot of discrepancies in it, or should they all be mirror images of each other? I also do see that the op Luger lacks the sharp edges like others shown in the post, JMO

07-06-2010, 06:42 PM	#62
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,656 Thanks: 3,212 Thanked 2,620 Times in 972 Posts	Jason Nice looking luger. My estimate would be closer to 95%. As for value, if the mags are original around $3000 to $3500. The holster $250 to 300. Difficult to appraise from pictures. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

07-06-2010, 10:50 PM	#63
tharpo Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: West Coast, USA Posts: 543 Thanks: 118 Thanked 383 Times in 158 Posts	In regards to the grips. I have a 1941 byf with a "p" suffix which puts its production just before Jason's luger with a "Q" suffix. My left grip is different in that it is numbered to the gun but both are marked with an E/655 and a "D" stamp(workers mark?). This leads me to believe that his grips are original to the period but I would have of way of knowing if his left the Mauser factory on his gun. Attached Thumbnails

07-06-2010, 11:16 PM	#64
LugerVern User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 563 Thanks: 1 Thanked 34 Times in 27 Posts	It's a good thing this is the "New Collector" section. I am done with this post Attached Thumbnails

07-07-2010, 10:48 AM	#68
tau-delt User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 106 Thanks: 0 Thanked 11 Times in 7 Posts	Jason.... Good looking pair. Could not make out the SN so I need to ask if these are part of the Black Grip Study I have going on over on the other luger forum ??? __________________ dave

07-09-2010, 09:42 AM	#73
tau-delt User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 106 Thanks: 0 Thanked 11 Times in 7 Posts	If you look at the post that Jason L made on 7/7 (post #67) above in this thread you will see a nice pair of so called Black Widows. Note the black grips and the black plastic mag bottoms. __________________ dave

07-06-2010, 05:40 PM	#61
Mauser George User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: New York Posts: 88 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Sieger: Say what you please, but the facts speak for themselves. I truly appreciate you being so civilized when dealing with me! Why don’t we just stick with the topic at hand which is Jason 1941 Luger. It’s ok to disagree, however his Luger, including the grips in my option are right as rain! George

07-06-2010, 11:22 PM	#65
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	LugerVern: Why is that ? dju

07-07-2010, 12:12 AM	#67
Jason L User Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: CT. USA Posts: 66 Thanks: 2 Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts	Hey Gents, Honestly I go back and forth on this one. There are a few things that bother me....... 1. GESICHERT is too white, all my guns are yellowed 2. There appears to be no typical holster wear on the end of the barrel. Overall I think it is Ok but the pictures are not good enough to determine the originality. A hands on inspection among other examples would be best IMHO. Here are a couple byf 41's from my collection for comparison. Cheers, A different Jason Attached Thumbnails

07-08-2010, 07:04 PM	#69
bijj62 User Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 27 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I just got back from a gun shop about 50 miles away from where I live, I had a gentleman look my Luger over real good. Why didn't anybody tell me this was considerd a "Black Widow"?? I guess maybe I shouldve known...He took a magnifying glass to it and it was his opinion that it had never been refinshed, it had correct grips, and that the holster was original in 85%+. He pulled both grips and opened the chamber took his glass looked it all over, looked up at me with a grin and said "I bet this thing hasn't had 50 rounds thru it".

07-08-2010, 09:26 PM	#70
bijj62 User Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 27 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Scratch that "black widow" remark. I spoke with him again and he says alot of people call the Lugers with the blued trigger etc "black widows" Ive seen that term quite a bit in my recent attempt on researching Lugers, does it just have to do with the plastic grips I'm assuming?

07-08-2010, 09:39 PM	#71
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,607 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Jason, "Black Widow" is a term that was coined a few years ago to describe the 20% or so, of the 1941 and 1942 byf Lugers that were issued with black bakelite grips. This label has caught the popular imagination and these guns are now worth a little more than those with wood grips. Regards, Norm

07-08-2010, 10:56 PM	#72
Ardennes User Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 15 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Photos have limitations as do the human eyes. That being said I think we are looking at what comes close to a mint byf 41 rig. They do exist. That does not scare me at all. The gentleman has the piece and it must be considered original. A rework? One must always consider the possibility, but an absolutely perfect fake (if such a thing exists) would have to considered original until shown to be otherwise. If excellent pieces are considered too good looking to be original ... where does that leave us?? From what I can see, $3000.00 easy for this rig up to perhaps $4500.00 tops. Just my opinion.

07-09-2010, 10:33 AM	#74
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	Jason, Just for comparison take a look at my posting. Under military lugers, 'Pair of 41s'. About page 2-3. One black widow, one.... Brown Recluse? LOL FN

07-09-2010, 11:36 AM	#75
Neil Young Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Scottsboro, Alabama Posts: 548 Thanks: 566 Thanked 443 Times in 168 Posts	"Brown Recluse"--I like that. I think you just coined another name for a specific type of Luger. My byf 42 is a Brown Recluse from this day forward. Thanks. Neil __________________ Neil The hurrier I go the behinder I get. Sometimes it takes me all day to get nothing done.

07-09-2010, 02:34 PM	#76
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	ROTF!!!! I'm famous!!! Infamous???!?!? FN

10-11-2010, 02:34 AM	#77
caflashbob User Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 16 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Byf 41 Sorry to bring up an old post. Especially in the mixed light the Luger was received in. I too am a first time owner with the identical gun. My condition is close with some barrel holster wear and the side plate finish worn also. The difference I noticed as well as could be seen is that mine has no sanding marks on the flat surfaces and every machined edge is completely sharp. Like I said I am sorry to bring this up again but the education I got here was really interesting to me. No mags that match with mine but everything else is correct. Minor pitting as I stated minor holster wear but at least 90% finish on the gun. You will probably tell me I am dumb but I have fired the gun quite a bit when I got it from the bring back ww11 guy twenty years ago who never fired it since he traded an officer for in in Germany in 1945. What a fantastic shooting weapon. My grips fully wrap around and are airtight under the safety lever and have the matching 655 stamp and D stamp and a large V and the matching numbers. And a internal small crack starting on the surface of the inside of the right grip. Wood grain looks different than the op's but wood is wood. Interesting that I have a somewhat comparable gun to look at reading this thread. Yellowing paint half missing on the safety levers warning printing. Bob

11-11-2010, 02:41 PM	#78
ratdog User Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 147 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Just looking at the pics of the two grips side by side, you can clearly see they are not the same. Raised areas are different, as are the lips on the edges of these raised areas. WaA looks sharp wing edges on the op grips. Was the grip manufacture something that had a lot of discrepancies in it, or should they all be mirror images of each other? I also do see that the op Luger lacks the sharp edges like others shown in the post, JMO